Sindt prices....

[Mr.Gumby]

Perhaps just an unfortunate few.

Come on Phil, one of the main recurring subjects on this forum is the old 'what does so and so play' or 'what whistle is this?'. I'd say it's more than a few unfortunate.

In fairness though, it's possibly less pronounced now than it was maybe ten years ago on this forum.

[free-feet]

Come on Phil, one of the main recurring subjects on this forum is the old 'what does so and so play' or 'what whistle is this?'. I'd say it's more than a few unfortunate.

People want to have what those they wish to emulate have. It's not unfortunate, it's a reality.

How many bought Fender Strats because Hendrix played one? If Strats were as rare and difficult to get hold of as a Sindt then you can bet your life savings the price of them would have shot through the roof. It's not that strats are any better than other guitars, personally i think they're bloody awful tinny sounding pieces of crap, but others love them because they want "that sound" or "that look" that those they wish to emulate musically have. There's really nothing unfortunate about it, i think it's a fortunate thing that people are willing to pay a little bit more to sound like the players they're listening to and that they admire, if nothing else it gives them a little more incentive to play and practice more - even if the effect is only placebo, placebo can have a powerful effect.

I really don't see why people are getting on their high horses about the price that Sindts are selling for. If someone wants to sell theirs and someone wishes to pay x amount of money for it then that's their concern. If you feel that you can get the same enjoyment from a feadog or gen that you just bought from your local music shop for £5 then enjoy, other people want to treat themselves to something much nicer.

[Mr.Gumby]

You were doing so well making the case it is all perception and hype and then you turn it all upside down by saying:

If you feel that you can get the same enjoyment from a feadog or gen that you just bought from your local music shop for £5 then enjoy, other people want to treat themselves to something much nicer.

So, make up your mind, which point are you really making? Placebo or real?

As for my own position, I do appreciate the Sindts I have but at the same time I consider them just another option alongside the other (massproduced) whistles I have and if push comes to shove, they're not necessarily the whistles I play at home as a go to instrument. I was never unhappy paying John's new price although I don't think I would be happy to go much beyond that. As for people paying current amounts, that's ofcourse their prerogative. Just as it is anybody's prerogative to hold the opinion that they are paying silly money.

[free-feet]

You were doing so well making the case it is all perception and hype and then you turn it all upside down by saying:

If you feel that you can get the same enjoyment from a feadog or gen that you just bought from your local music shop for £5 then enjoy, other people want to treat themselves to something much nicer.

So, make up your mind, which point are you really making? Placebo or real? [img]images/smilies/icon_biggrin_144.gif[/img

I actually wasn't trying to make the case that it's all perception and hype, you've misunderstood my intent. I was simply suggesting that to some it probably is. For me, there's no perception and hype. I made money from the deal that brought my Sindt into my possession, it truly is a great whistle and since owning it i've sold all my other nice whistles and haven't bought any others. I really can't imagine finding one better and can't be bothered looking for one. If at some point in the future someone lets me have a go of their whistle and i find it even better than the Sindt then i'll think about buying one of those. Yes, i would pay silly money for a Copeland if i was to try it first and find that it truly is better than my Sindt. I would then sell the Sindt.

I really enjoy playing whistle and i want to have the one that i love to play the most. And at 49 years old i figure that i've still got at least 40 years of playing left in me at least, and even if i paid $400 for 40 years of totally joyful whistling, that's only $10 a year, which is less than 3c an hour if i play an hour a day. But even at the end of that there's still the whistle to sell. A good hand made whistle like a Sindt, is a really good investment.

I mentioned the placebo effect for those who seem to think that having a Sindt does not make people better players. Personally i think owning and playing a Sindt has made my playing better because it is a better whistle, others may think this is nonsense and that i could be just as good a player if i used a Gen or Feadog, ergo, it's placebo. Whichever way you want to look at it, which is entirely up to each individual, pacebo or real, it makes me a better player.

[PhilO]

Check this out. Saturday up here on Warren St in Hudson, a 7" tall Cossack figurine sold at auction for 5.2 million dollars; it had been pre-auction estimated at a mere $700,000. I stopped bidding at 5.1.

[Mr.Gumby]

The whistle posted on other thread, the $124 Feadóg, is probably a more apt analogy.

[pancelticpiper]

'professional' or otherwise prominent players

Just to be completely clear, in my post I was not speaking of 'professional' players; I was speaking of professional players (without quotation marks), people who make their living playing music, write off instruments as business expenses, and are in the Musicians Union. (The quotation marks imply that the term professional is being qualified or its validity questioned; however I was using the term in the most literal sense possible.)

[pancelticpiper]

The whistle posted on other thread, the $124 Feadóg...

I wouldn't sell my Feadog for that... or for $200, or for $300... because it is literally irreplaceable. (I've played hundreds of Feadogs over the last 30+ years but none like mine.)

Now if somebody starts talking somewhat over the $300 range I might consider it... because then I'd be in the position to "overpay" for a Sindt!

[Steve Bliven]

Thread Revival:

A Sindt in D on eBay just went for $455.

Just when you think it's over the top, there's a whole new top....

Best wishes.

Steve

[ytliek]

And the economy is bad? Not in the whistleworld.

How much is brass by the foot, I may try drilling some holes?

[pancelticpiper]

If you feel that you can get the same enjoyment from a feadog or gen that you just bought from your local music shop for £5 then enjoy, other people want to treat themselves to something much nicer.

Well the very best whistle I have, in my opinion the best I've ever played, is my Generation C, and my all-time favourite D is my Feadog. I've played Sindts and sterling silver Copelands and blackwood Shultzes and many other things. If it were possible to 'treat myself to something much nicer' I would, but I've yet to come across a C better than that Generation, or a D better than that Feadog.

[PhilO]

Perhaps just an unfortunate few.

Come on Phil, one of the main recurring subjects on this forum is the old 'what does so and so play' or 'what whistle is this?'. I'd say it's more than a few unfortunate.

In fairness though, it's possibly less pronounced now than it was maybe ten years ago on this forum.

Agreed, but also, I don't mean that those folks are unfortunate, just that the wideness of that perspective is a bit unfortunate, at least when compared to more talk about the tunes and learning to play, comparing approaches, questions about the music, etc. But again, perfectly typical as with guitars or cars. We all know these are tools for a purpose (although music is a bit more than a "purpose" as opposed to getting somewhere in a car), but people are not "pure" in their approach to this. Listen to guys talking about their cars.

[PhilO]

To be fair to John Sindt... the price he set is "fair" as well as consistent, and much below all of the "hyped" prices seen in the various markets.

Collectibles of any kind wreak havoc on the issue of value, whether musical instruments, dolls, baseball cards, gemstones, classic cars, coins, stamps, whatever. It is what it is.
Collectability opens a broader can of worms.

As far as Sindt owners vs players, its hard to play when you don't own. One thing that I have noticed is when whistle players go into the recording studio to make a CD many of them bring the (their?) Sindt whistle along. Many of the CDs' jacket info state that a tune or tunes were played with a Sindt whistle. Perhaps commercial endorsements for ulterior purposes. Then again, it just might be the quality. I don't record but I do read all of the jacket info.

I would also like to ask ecohawk, PhilO, or anyone possessing a sterling silver Sindt whistle vs a nickel tube what markings (if any) determine it is a sterling silver whistle? Or is it just paperwork at time of purchase?

There is no such marking and yes it is indicated on paperwork. One would think that the difference would appear right away and then over time as to differences in appearances and changes. I just compared the Sindt tube to some older nickel Copelands and the Sindt is lighter and brighter in color - almost near white. Also, one would expect that the sterling would tarnish; oddly the Sindt has not, but that is likely due to the level of purity in the silver which can vary up to a point and still be considered sterling I believe. In any event, I got the Sterling Sindt as a birthday present and have long since stopped caring (if ever) that it is sterling. (Also it did not cost much more than a "regular" Sindt) I have another older brass Sindt D, but I really like the way the newer whistle responds as well as its tone and perhaps in a few other areas of playability. The head joint on the newer Sindt is more than a quarter inch longer than that on the brass one so Sindt's, certainly made at different times, vary albeit they are thought of as dependably alike when made around the same time. If, for example, and I'm not sure of the genesis of your question, I were to find out that the sterling was of low purity, I wouldn't give a darn, as I love to play this whistle because of how it reacts with me and sounds. I suppose this last goes a long way to agree with Mr. Gumby's overall point.

I should add that just at the beginning of the heights of John's growing popularity, I sold a Bflat and an A brass Sindt because I didn't particularly like them - I thought them a bit "boring" somehow in tone; I sold them or traded them at the going regular rates. I don't "collect" whistles because they're "hot" rather I try a lot of different whistles over time because it's an interest and I have no interest in obtaining "hot" or collectible whistles that I don't enjoy playing.

Also, with Copelands, they've always been wildly varying even at the same time of make, and I've had better luck on the secondary market. I've had both phenomenal and near unplayable whistles from Michael (always addressed by him); probably also a bit to Mr. Gumby's point.

Anyway, over the last 5 years or so, the only whistle I practice on everyday is the sterling Sindt; occasionally, I'll go to to various Bflat or G whistles or lately Low D (Burke Viper).
So Mr. Gumby, when I combine my sterling Sindt with the recently shipped Mary Bergin tutorial, I should fairly soon be ready to go on tour, right?