Aluminium alternative to Dixon TB003/TB012 Low D

[Mikethebook]

Of later I've been playing my Dixon TB003 Low D more and really appreciating the way it is set up and the balance it has between octaves. It's an easy-to-play soft blower requiring a little care with the bottom note, plays very easily into the upper second octave and doesn't appear to require excessive amounts of air. But I much prefer the tone of aluminium especially the Goldie/Overton sound. I have a soft blowing Goldie Low D (the softest Colin makes) that I love, but it is not nearly soft enough for my taste like the Dixon. On the other hand, I've found the Lambe and O'Briain's that I've played to be far too sensitive at the bottom end. So I'm searching for an aluminium (or brass) Low D that has something of the same balance and playability the Dixon has. Can anyone suggest alternatives?

[DrPhill]

I think that the dixon is a superb whistle for the money. If my budget was limited then that would be the low D I would get. I still have mine (having tried and resold several other whistles), so our tastes in whistles may be similar. If that is so, then I would suggest that a Copeland would suit you. My main whistles are Copeland and Bleazey. Choosing between them is difficult, but I am drifting more to the Copeland these days. It is easy and predictable - plays itself really. I prefer the tone of the Bleazey, but it is harder to play.

[Mikethebook]

Hi DrPhill. I have to agree with you wholeheartedly regarding the Dixon. It's tone is not my favourite by a long way but it plays for me just like I would like a Low D whistle to play. Thanks for your suggestions. I had no idea this is how a Copeland would play. They are said to require a lot of air but I'm beginning to take such comments with a pinch of salt. What is a lot to one person isn't so bad to another and I don't actually find a Low D whistle with more backpressure uses less air. I find myself taking just as many breaths on my Goldie as I do on the Dixon, just because of the effort used in pushing air down the windway. I was interested to check out the Bleazey and the reviews of Tony Hinnigan. Nice but I would prefer an aluminium whistle though.

Unfortunately the stumbling block is price. No way could I afford a Copeland Low D right now, nor for that matter a Bleazey but I appreciate your suggestions. I've been wondering whether a Hammy Hamilton Low D, a Reviol or a Bracker would play like a Dixon. Those are the only whistles that come to mind but I have no experience of them.

[Blurt . . .]

Have to put in a word for the superb (and absurdly cheap) Impempe Low D by Ian Turnbull, quite sure this will meet all your requirements Mike.

According to Ian's website he will no longer be offering Low whistles in future but they are still available from Phil at Big Whistle (so they may be something of a 'collectors item' in future?)

[DrPhill]

I am puzzled by the importance that you place on aluminium.

In my search for 'the' whistle I considered material far less important than other characteristics. So much so that I do not even consider the material when I pick up a whistle. My low D whistles are Dixon (plastic) Bleazey (wood) and Copeland(metal). I have rejected low whistles made of plastic (other Dixons, Onyx) Steel (Shaw), aluminium (Goldie, Chieftain, Dixon). Of the others you mention I have no knowledge.

So why is aluminium important to you?

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On the air requirement thing: I think this is a complex topic. I initially thought Copelands to be too air-hungry, but I have learnt to control this with embouchure. I think that this this may ultimately give me more control over the tone of the whistle - but I do not claim to be that skilled yet. Contrariwise I found the Onyx similarly air hungry, but unresponsive to embouchure control. That may just have been me or my skill level though.

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Copelands do seem to go for silly prices (its just a tube with holes in is it not?), but if you place my Copeland on one table, and all the other whistles I have ever owned on another and give me the choice I would pick the Copeland. I bet the rejected pile would cost more than the Copeland.

[pancelticpiper]

I met Tony at the NAMM Show in 2011, where he let me play his prototype for his new all-plastic conical bore Low D.

It's a very special whistle! There's something about its voicing/playability which sets it apart from all other Low Ds. It plays more like a flute than any other Low D, but I would be hard-pressed to put into words exactly what I mean by that. It's just something from playing flute for 35 years.

A few months later one arrived in the post for me, a gift from Tony! A very charming man, he is.

That Dixon Low D doesn't have the big sound of an Overton, MK, or Burke but it's more ergonomic and plays in its own special way.

Here's the thread I started at the time

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79949&hilit=namm

[Mikethebook]

Thanks for the replies guys. Dr Phill, my preference for aluminium comes down to two factors, tone and price. Ever since I heard Davy Spillane play the opening bars of Riverdance that's the tone, an ethereal breathy tone, that I've been drawn to. Wooden whistles that I've listened to sound more mellow, rounded and earthy.

But more importantly, I started off with £500 to spend on whistles and that's my limit sadly. And it doesn't go far especially if you start talking about wooden whistles. WOAD isn't an option, but I've been lucky to be able to try various whistles without making a loss but I'm aiming to own a high D, a low F and, if I'm lucky perhaps two or three low Ds. A Lofgren high D that I love has taken £80 so already I'm down to £420!! A Goldie is about as expensive as I can afford to go and whistles from the USA are virtually out because of import duty of 25-30%. So unless you know of any cheaper wooden whistles . . . . they're just not a option.

Thanks Richard for your PM. I'll read the old thread on the Dixon. Thinking aloud here, I wonder if I sent my Dixon to Colin Goldie whether he could somehow soften further his "soft blower" by raising the windway height shortening the window maybe, perhaps making the holes sightly smaller and come somewhere near replicating the playing dynamics of the Dixon . . . but in a cylindrical whistle? Probably asking too much.

[Blurt . . .]

Apologies for being so contrary (and with only my second post too) but am I missing something with the Tony Dixon Low D?

I thought it was horrible in every way possible, it looked horrible, felt horrible and most importantly sounded horrible (whole thing was far too redolent of cheap recorders at school) it was even worse than a Susato (incredible I know)

I hated (hate) it with a passion and wouldn't have one given ...

[Feadoggie]

Apologies for being so contrary (and with only my second post too) but am I missing something with the Tony Dixon Low D?

I thought it was horrible in every way possible, it looked horrible, felt horrible and most importantly sounded horrible (whole thing was far too redolent of cheap recorders at school) it was even worse than a Susato (incredible I know)

That's one of the marvelous things about whistles and whistle players. We do not always assess a whistle the same. And to each their own, as it should be. There'd be far fewer whistles in the market if we all agreed on things.

Keep in mind that the Dixon low D has continued to be revised over the last decade or so. And some examples vary from others. I personally find the current Dixon low D's to be a very good place to start out on a low whistle. And it is a good enough whistle for many players to play regardless of price and experience. It's a pleasant whistle IMO. I keep one on my desk. I've got a lot of whistles to choose from but that's the low D that sits out ready to play all the time. The Susato low D is a handful but I also find it to be a pretty good whistle (if you can handle the big beak and large BH2 hole). Your mileage must vary from mine. Different drivers on different roads perhaps?

If we might ask, Blurt..., what is your preferred low D?

And for Mikethebook ... I've never found a large difference (if any) in the sound of the Dixon aluminum bodies versus the polymer ones. They share the same head geometry. I once thought the Dixon resembled the Cillian O'Briain low D but you've already been there and done that I believe.

Feadoggie

[Blurt . . .]

It was one of the new tapered bore Dixon's I've tried, I think (correct me if wrong) that's the most recent model?

I have (I've had) FAR too many Low D's but at present my preferred choices are:

1. Kerry Optima - Indoor 'practise' whistle.

2. MK Kelpie - Gig whistle.

3. Impempe - Best 'all rounder'.

[ecohawk]

I am puzzled by the importance that you place on aluminium.

In my search for 'the' whistle I considered material far less important than other characteristics. So much so that I do not even consider the material when I pick up a whistle. My low D whistles are Dixon (plastic) Bleazey (wood) and Copeland(metal). I have rejected low whistles made of plastic (other Dixons, Onyx) Steel (Shaw), aluminium (Goldie, Chieftain, Dixon). Of the others you mention I have no knowledge.

So why is aluminium important to you?

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On the air requirement thing: I think this is a complex topic. I initially thought Copelands to be too air-hungry, but I have learnt to control this with embouchure. I think that this this may ultimately give me more control over the tone of the whistle - but I do not claim to be that skilled yet. Contrariwise I found the Onyx similarly air hungry, but unresponsive to embouchure control. That may just have been me or my skill level though.

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Copelands do seem to go for silly prices (its just a tube with holes in is it not?), but if you place my Copeland on one table, and all the other whistles I have ever owned on another and give me the choice I would pick the Copeland. I bet the rejected pile would cost more than the Copeland.

I think this post by DrPhill is among the best I've read on this topic. I'm not fond of Dixon's, but this post illustrates the problem perfectly. Our tastes change as our skill level improves and it's why I don't believe in just acquiring, then trading away, or selling instruments until one achieves a certain level of proficiency. You don't yet really know what you'll eventually be able to handle. I also agree about the Copeland being everything Mikethebook described as his dream. Except for the price. The material choice is also a puzzler for the same reason. It has little effect on the tone or playing characteristics IMHO.

I find that my main three low D whistles right now to be a Burke Viper aluminum, a Goldie which really likes to be pushed and a Copeland brass. Three very different whistles and my taste has changed over time. What these all have in common is a strong low end, great dynamic range and lots of volume. I know that Mikethebook doesn't prefer loud instruments though so maybe the Dixon is the best choice for him right now. Personally, if this is your personal preference I would have kept the Lambe and had someone build a slight wall around the window, like Copeland does. It will greatly improve that low range for you.

The aluminum Impempe I had played very much like the Lambe, with a slightly touchy bell note, but it might work for you. Ian makes very good whistles. But IMO, if I were you I'd contact Hans Bracker and have him build one for you. He's in your budget and I'm betting he can make one you'll like.

ecohawk

[DrPhill]

Thanks for the replies guys. Dr Phill, my preference for aluminium comes down to two factors, tone and price. Ever since I heard Davy Spillane play the opening bars of Riverdance that's the tone, an ethereal breathy tone, that I've been drawn to.

So why not buy one of what he plays then? Then you know that you can achieve the sound.

I know little of whistle design, but I am of the opinion that the material the tube is made of has little direct influence on the tone of the whistle. Though this seems counter-intuitive it does seem to be the majority verdict of players and makers here-abouts. The reason is that the sound in the whistle is made by a vibrating column of air, not by the vibrating tube. That this is so becomes obvious if we compare with a wind chime which does rely on a vibrating tube. If you place a finger on a vibrating wind chime you will dampen the vibrations and spoil the sound. If our whistle were relying on the tube vibrations we would not want to touch it with soft fingers that would dampen the vibrations. But we do put our soft puddies all over the tube and still get music, so that indicates that the tube vibrations are relatively or even entirely unimportant.

The material does affect the tone in an indirect way. Wood cannot easily be made as thin as brass, so the toneholes are longer which gives a different range of harmonics and a different response. If you could replicate the Dixon exactly in aluminium I reckon it would sound pretty much the same as the original.

The material has an effect upon our enjoyment of playing the whistle, and some materials carry positive or negative cultural baggage. There are also concerns of the chemical and thermal characteristics which might indirectly affect playing - a solid metal block may lead to more condensation, brass tarnishes faster. But I cannot believe a direct effect of material on tone.

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I reckon EcoHawk has the best suggestion when he says:

But IMO, if I were you I'd contact Hans Bracker and have him build one for you. He's in your budget and I'm betting he can make one you'll like.

EDIT: I say that because Hans is closer to you - and talking face-to-face may be easier than email or phone. Not as any comment on Colin, Brigitte, or their whistles (for which I have the utmost respect).

[Mikethebook]

Thanks guys. Lots to reply to here. Impempe has been suggested and, given their price, I've already written to Ian to talk about how they play. Hans Bracker has also been suggested and he is another distinct possibility. I've been waiting for the tour to reach the UK so I can play his Low D for a week but since he lives only a few hours away I may try and visit him when we are on holiday nearer him in a few weeks time . . . and take my Dixon along with me. Domnahl na Gruen is another suggestion and I may try out a second-hand whistle offered to me. The Optima has cropped up too. My first Low D was an Optima (which certainly moves in the direction of the Dixon for second octave access) but I quickly switched to a Goldie. I've tried an Optima again since but again been dissatisfied with it. For one thing I struggle with Phil's sharp edged holes after the lovely rounded quality that Colin lends to them. And what about Hammy Hamilton? I wonder whether his Low D would have that Dixon balance I'm looking for? I don't know of too many people who have played them.

I am of the opinion that the material the tube is made of has little direct influence on the tone of the whistle.

I struggle with this idea. Perhaps it is right but my ears tell me a different story. Wooden whistles sound so much different to aluminium for example and my Dixon doesn't sound anything like my Goldie.

So why not buy one of what he [Davy Spillane] plays then? Then you know that you can achieve the sound.

I'm still travelling down that road already, DrPhill. Davy's Overton was of the big-hole variety and I owned Colin's version of that for a while. But, sadly, my fingers struggled with being too thin for the holes. Perhaps more importantly, Davy's whistle, through the way he tweaked it, was free blowing and the second/third octaves relaxed and accessible. My current Goldie, the soft blower, is just not soft enough so whatever else I buy, I will talk to Colin again about a softer alternative and maybe send him the Dixon to check out. Perhaps in time with more experience I could try a big-hole again and get Colin to make a tube to fit the new head.

Whatever else I buy though, I've come to a new respect for the Dixon TB003 and won't, as I first thought, be selling it.

[Mr.Gumby]

Not to sound grumpy or anything but if you insist on playing like Spillane, learn to play like him.

If you insist on the hardware route, maybe consider getting yourself one of these:




You'd almost assume it will sound a fair bit how Spillane likes it.

[Mikethebook]

The first time I've seen one! But they're not for sale anywhere are they?