An open letter to all who post here ...

[Jefferson]

Dear Jerry,

It is very rare that there is something new in human history. As long as people were limited in their daily errands to walking, we lived, of neccessity, in a neighborhood of some kind. For good & bad, we knew & were know by those with whom we had daily contact. If you & I were neighbors, & a storm blew down your barn, I'd likely come over to help you repair it, even if I had a raging disagreement with you. Not because I suddenly agreed with you, or decided that our disagreement was unimportant. But because next time, it might be my barn that's been knocked down. Where you said, "there are two possible paths to take:

1. Go stomping off shaking one's head, muttering, "These people will never learn. I'm out of here," or

2. Stick around and see what happens next."

Option 1 wasn't very practical. Being in a perpetual snit was a luxury most couldn't afford. So folks had to stick around & work things out.

But in the 20th century, especially in America, I believe that we did see something new in human experience. Suddenly, an entire society had the wealth & mobility to choose not to be part of a particular community.

Among a lot of other things, good & bad (that are way beyond this conversation) this change brought an epidemic of alienation, from flaming on message boards to the Columbine massacre. Civility has become almost optional, as far as the daily neccessities of life go. Yet, we long for & need community. If we're going to have it, we'll have to learn to be civil, because most of the folks we meet can "go stomping off" if we aren't.

My father was a rock-ribbed Republican. My grandfather was an FDR Democrat. For 25 years, they scarcely spoke. In the end, they agreed not to discuss politics. It was not because they'd changed their views; they were obstinate like Gibraltar is a rock. I think they did it because their feud was denying the kids (including yours truly) of the experience of having grandparents. That is the path out, I think. Realizing that what I'm participating in, the community, the family, the neighborhood, is more important than my glorious opinions & pet grudges.

(Not to say that I've gotten out. My lifestyle is standard-suburban-sterile. I came to the whistle from a love of Irish music & a budding desire to PARTICIPATE, not just fill the slot designated for me in the machinery of bureaucracy. One step at a time.)

[The Weekenders]

I really appreciate your comments, Jefferson! So true. And living in California, we have many of the people who came here to shut themselves out. I did a lot of neighborhood council work and for us, it was otherwise reasonable people who hid behind their mini-blinds while vandals roved the streets that drove us nuts. Open the damn blinds, I would say. Call the cops if you want to have a chance at making the place safe fore everybody. By extension, your comments describe it in a more social sense. I have learned to respect neighbors that both keep their distance yet make a point to say hello and keep eye contact. They don't want to set up possible snits, yet want to have community. In time, maybe friends but at least the channels are open.

And Rideshard really made a great point. Varying levels of maturity....oh yeah!

[peeplj]

I find this thread to be one of the most meaningful OT threads of late. Really good points by all.

One thing I think that hasn't been mentioned is simply that people's behavior will in a smaller way mirror the behavior of their society.

We live in a society where everything is hectic, where people both profesionally and personally are all-too-often considered disposable commodities, where the term "time to think" is as much an anachronism as "to wind a watch." We are bombarded all day, every day, with a chaotic maelstrom where all the news is "vital" and everything is "of utmost importance." --When is the last time you heard anyone on television say, "We would now like to make an announcement of only moderate importance and somewhat limited appeal."?--

So is it any wonder when folks come to this and other online forums and act just the same way?

I think if you really want to change the behavior of the individual, you must start by changing the society as a whole, which has both deadly momentum and incredible interia.

I think this is why so few positive changes in our society--and in ourselves--ever actually occur.

Best wishes,

--James

[Walden]

But in the 20th century, especially in America, I believe that we did see something new in human experience. Suddenly, an entire society had the wealth & mobility to choose not to be part of a particular community.

That is a sad trend. Members of community should be able to be counted on, and not just to take off every time they don't want to work through an issue.

I think if you really want to change the behavior of the individual, you must start by changing the society as a whole, which has both deadly momentum and incredible interia.

I think this is why so few positive changes in our society--and in ourselves--ever actually occur.

Changing individuls by changing society is a disturbing thought. Though it's certainly been done in our age. The printed page made a vast social impact. The resulting increase in literacy, and the dissemenation of ideas opened a whole new world, almost. Then came radio and film. Across the world people were being exposed to the same ideas, and those with the power of the new mass-media certainly used this power of persuasion, especially in evcouraging a celf-centered and consumeristic attitude. With the advent of television, the experience of film was combined with the accessibility of radio, and a vast portion of society has been impacted by this. With the coming of microcomputers and online services, there has been another change of society, and thereby of individuals.

But the question of changing society brings up another question. Whose changes? People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals? The Women's Christian Temperance Union? The Humanist Association? The International Society for Krishna Consciousness?

Ultimately, you may be right about this, but it seems necessary for quite a bit of individual change to occur before societal change can occur. There are some serious problems in modern societies. Among these are racial and ethnic prejudice, juvenile delinquincy, domestic abuse, materialism, loss of privacy, hatred, immorality, amorality, substance abuse, et cetera. There is little question that all societies could bear some improvement.

One thing I think that hasn't been mentioned is simply that people's behavior will in a smaller way mirror the behavior of their society.

Yes, it's something of a microcosm, like the Saturday morning cartoon, Recess.

[Nanohedron]

I'll have to paraphrase Gandhi here: If you want to change the world, you must become the change you want to see happen. I have a firm belief in this. In my own words, "The Revolution starts here". *pointing thumb at chest*

The alternative may be seen in the lesson of Qin Xi Huangdi. Impressive, but draconian.

Just my 2 cents.

N

[aderyn_du]

Nano, I would have to agree with you there... the best way to manifest change is to begin within. The change you effect on the inner spreads out into the world. You cannot bring about transformation for others... though you can possibly act as a catalyst by bringing about your own transformation.

Blessings,
Andrea

[Blackbeer]

Another timely thread Jerry, thanks. I just wanted to add my thoughts on what I have read sofar. I don`t know about other forums or online communities; this is the only one I have ever known. It is pressious to me. The people I have met here are pressious to me. This instrument that we all have in common and the music we make with it is pressious to me. I have said before that I think of this place as my kitchen table full of welcome friends and harty discussion. We are all affected by what is going on in this world, some more than others but affected we are. I went out and through a saddle on Molly yesterday and realized that I hadn`t been out my door for 7 days. I find it hard to express myself inteligently sometimes because passion is hard to control, for me at any rate, so I close up and avoid human contact. I have learned what I have learned, not through books and others experience, but as my mother always used to put, "you always have to learn the hard way don`t you" Now I wouldn`t change much about the way Ive spent the last half century other than to be a little more articulate but I do value community and I have found it here. And of late others have been expressing my views better than I could so I kinda just bailed out of the OT stuff. I think my days of changing the world are pretty much over now but I do know that individualy we can change ourselve and thus change the world. I ment an old Budist monk in a little village in Vietnam and it turned out to be both a blessing and a curse. A blessing in that in the middle of a nightmare I found a few moment of peace. A curse in that I was presented with the reality that perfection in man is achievable. Long live this little hunk of cyberspace and thank you Dale and all you folks (and Cranberry who I am secritly in love with) And Andrea I owe you a letter and I`ll get right on it.

Peace

Tom

[Jerry Freeman]

You are changing the world, Tom.

I'm reminded of the story of Elija.

He saw great and powerful winds tearing mountains apart and was not impressed. He saw earthquakes and fires and was not impressed. But when he heard a gentle whisper, he covered his face with his cloak and welcomed the presence of God.

My point is, what appears to be powerful often isn't, really. And what may not be apparent at all (e.g. "a gentle whisper") may be more powerful than anything else.

In my opinion, feelings are the most powerful force in the world. From feelings come the attitudes and motivations that propel and guide all action in the world, whether for good or for ill.

Every kind word changes the world. Every gesture that attempts to bridge across to another person changes the world. And every effort each of us makes towards our own inner peace changes the world, because it enables us to more positively and profoundly nourish the feelings of whatever portion of humanity we happen to encounter in our lives.

Consider the effect a single life can have on history. There have been countless figures throughout time whose impact on the world was profound, for better or for worse, and whose actions were driven by attitudes and feelings that anyone who would care to investigate could clearly understand.

Where did those attitudes and motivations come from? They could only come from that person's experience of life among humanity.

Whatever any one of us does, however seemingly trivial, that is thoughtful, considerate, decent and compassionate, that treats another as a person of value -- because it affects the feelings, attitudes, motivations, and ultimately, the actions of the people with whom we come into contact, changes the world.

It is my opinion that little things day by day, multiplied by all the days of our lives and multiplied by all the countless lives of humankind, are what drive the great events of history and determine our condition on this planet.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[E = Fb]

Ah, so it's like marriage then. Got it!

[Lorenzo]

It is my opinion that little things day by day, multiplied by all the days of our lives and multiplied by all the countless lives of humankind, are what drive the great events of history and determine our condition on this planet

Absolutely Jerry! Details and definitions could remove so much of the confusion from what we are left to believe though impressions. Just think of how clear the biblica could be if every book in it started out with "Definitions" the way our State Code books do. And they only do so to make things clear, and to keep as much as possible out of court.

A friend of mine recently described why she was getting a divorce..."just a whole bunch of little things" she said.

[dave10]

My point is, what appears to be powerful often isn't, really. And what may not be apparent at all (e.g. "a gentle whisper") may be more powerful than anything else.

I am always reminded of Copland's "Fanfare for the Common Man" when I come upon thoughts like this. From what I understand, that's what he had in mind when he wrote it (as part of a symphony entitled "The Quiet City.") That the common man, the community of average folks, was deserving of the same kind of anthem or fanfare as royalty. So he wrote them one.

Thanks to all for this discussion. There's great rancor about, on the Internet and the radio and in the coffee shops and at the high school baseball games. Times are tense, and understandably so. The more we seek to find some areas of consensus, the better off we will be when we find areas of disagreement, large and small.

[peeplj]

Changing the world is a bit of a big task for me, at least this lifetime. Check back next time around, maybe it'll look a bit more promising then.

Seriously, I think the best we can do is to try to keep ourselves as sane as we can and to try to be as nice as we can be in our own little corner of the world.

If you could ever get enough folks doing that at once, you might make a real difference in the society as a whole. Unfortunately, your chances of affecting society as a whole are just the same as mine: pretty grim.

Walden et al, you need not fear: changing society from within doesn't seem to be possible.

That's not to say there is no hope--but I don't place my hope in society or the possibility of it changing. My hope is found, rather, in my wife, in my music, in shutting away the world when I come home every day.

We all have two faces--the one we show the world, and the one we wear among those we love. The outer face has all the armor and all the filters necessary to stay sane in a society that values profit over life. The other face has all the armor stripped away--but that's also the face that is volnerable to attack and can be hurt. If someone shows you this face, and you slap it, don't be surprised if the next time they approach you, it is with all the armor back in place.

That's true whether you are interacting on the boards or off them.

Here lately on the boards I have found my armor going back on. I don't think I'm alone in that, either.

Best wishes to all,

--James

[herbivore12]

Seriously, I think the best we can do is to try to keep ourselves as sane as we can and to try to be as nice as we can be in our own little corner of the world.

Nice, sane people are good people to have around, sure.

If you could ever get enough folks doing that at once, you might make a real difference in the society as a whole. Unfortunately, your chances of affecting society as a whole are just the same as mine: pretty grim.

It's true that large-scale societal change isn't often effected by individuals, and when it is it's by powerfully gifted, extraordinary individuals. Few of us have the natural reserves and charisma of a Ghandi, or King, etc., and even fewer have the desire to turn those energies to effect societal change, rather than simple personal gain or success in a more traditional field or manner (business, art, etc.). Of course, one could always argue that success in those fields might cause a societal effect, that Bill Gates et al do have an influence on society, but I guess we were talking more about revolutionary change and broad social movements.

That's not to say there is no hope--but I don't place my hope in society or the possibility of it changing. My hope is found, rather, in my wife, in my music, in shutting away the world when I come home every day.

Here, you lose me. It'd seem to me, based only on this post, that what you're describing isn't really a hopeful life at all. That shutting away the world to take what pleasure you can away from it is an *abdication* of hope. That one can seek refuge, or escape, or contentment in this way, but not hope.

I don't disparage the drive to feel secure and content; we all feel the urge to escape, at times. Certainly I understand the impulse; I am not an optimist about the world, or where it's headed. But I find that I can't live an unhopeful life, and that part of hoping is involvement, action. I can't do much, sure, but I try, with my wife, to be a positive force in the world (as I see it -- I know that people everywhere share different values, different goals, different views). And I've found that *being* involved, doing real work toward a goal that I think will positively affect the world, actually can breed hope, not just disappointment, even when I don't fully accomplish what I set out to do, or find it's not received as enthusiastically as I hoped it would be.

I continue to work as a volunteer in wildlife rehabilitation, even though we continually receive animals who are victims of simple cruelty (the pelicans with their wings tied together, baby birds with BBs shot through their crops) or corporate greed and neglect (oil spilled from poorly maintained lines, or illegal dumping of toxic material in wilderness areas). For years I worked at a homeless shelter run by my grandparents, even though some residents there might seem unappreciative, or we were vilified by people who thought providing services to the homeless simply encouraged people to remain homeless, and so on. In my "real" life, most of the patients enrolled in trials I design and manage will still die, because many new cancer therapies prove ineffective or patients come to us in such late stages of disease that there's little we can do.

But for all that disappointment and pain and exposure to the world at its worst, it's great to see a treated animal fly again back to sea (especially when it's an endangered species, where every breeding individual matters), or to see a homeless family find work and a place to live and a school for their kids, or a patient who had thought they had months to live suddenly find themselves with years of life to live. The successes often are greatly outnumbered by the failures, but they matter more to me, and make the work worthwhile. And sometimes it really does make a difference. Sometimes it really does effect some small change, or even have a larger effect (as when we save an entire breeding population of seabirds from an oil spill, or find an effective therapy for an entire disease class).

We all have two faces--the one we show the world, and the one we wear among those we love. The outer face has all the armor and all the filters necessary to stay sane in a society that values profit over life. The other face has all the armor stripped away--but that's also the face that is volnerable to attack and can be hurt. If someone shows you this face, and you slap it, don't be surprised if the next time they approach you, it is with all the armor back in place.

I'd suggest that we wear more than two faces, and that varying degrees of armor -- not just naked or fully-armed -- are warranted. I don't think that entering into conversation with a room full of people -- some friends, some strangers -- with a little bit of wariness means that something's lost. It's just the way the world works, and we have to be sensitive to the fact that others hold opinions unlike ours (we're all guilty of forgetting this, sometimes, probably). It's important, in environments like this, to find the participation, the work, the tussle, rewarding. It's not a place to find validation, or open acceptance of all we offer; too many opinions and tastes and goals in so many people.

I know that you recently experienced a bad phase on this board, having recorded some tunes for a tutorial which were not received with universal acclaim. Some comments may have been hurtful, some were simply honest, and many were full of praise and thanks. That's about what I'd expect from a diverse community. Mention Lunasa here, and you'll get people who sing their praises, and others who hate that they deviate from their notion of trad music. So I think a certain amount of "armor", if you will -- I'd call it simple good sense -- is warranted, as much as we'd like to think we can all drop our defenses amongst like-minded folks. Sometimes the strength of a community lies in that diversity and the thinking that it engenders, and the self-scrutiny we have to engage in from time to time as we consider where we stand on some issue; the widely varying opinions don't point to callousness and unbridgable gulfs, but to the fact that this community, like others, is full of individuals with different wants and needs and styles and goals.

And I think James' participation here is indicative of hope, too, as is his desire to share his music and thoughts with the rest of us, and I'm glad of that. Not everyone will like all the music posted here, or agree with all the thoughts, but it's nice to see a community formed, even if we might need to take a break from one another on occasion for some breathing room. *Participation* is what we have in common here. Withdrawal isn't hopeful, I think, whereas participation is, and I value all the participants here; I've learned a lot.

Thanks to everyone for that.

--Aaron

[Celtoid]

This is all a bit too warm and fuzzy for me

And I have to completely disagree with jerry here, just well, because someone has to.

[Jerry Freeman]

What a noble gesture!

*Note to self, place Celtoid on Enemies List. Moniter closely.*

It's so rare nowadays to find an individual who will stand up for a principle.

Best wishes,
Jerry