Narrow Bore set as first and only set for beginners?

[Titus]

Hi,

first of all, i hope you can understand, what i mean, for I am not a native english speaker...


Two years ago I started playing the Uilleann-Pipes. I had no teacher and wasn't that enthusiatic to go to workshops or something. All I could play, was with Heather Clarke's "New Approach to Uilleann-Piping" and some help from german-speaking forums (mainly concerning other bagpipes than Uilleann-Pipes).

When getting to a very difficult chapter in the book I surrendered and traded the Set for a Hurdy-Gurdy. Now I am willing to give the Hurdy-Gurdy away for getting a Set of Pipes again.

I'm glad Andreas Rogge isn't that far away from me, I could reach him in under two hours. I'm going to visit him again and will ask him the same questions... (my first PS was also made by Rogge). But I hope, I can get some of my thoughts and questions answered here, too!


In a german "manual" by Tom Kannmacher, he writes the sound of narrow bore chanters would be more lovely... mellow... The lower the Pitch, the nicer the sound.

I also heard some narrow bore sets on Youtube and they really sound good. But I'm not quite sure if it would be a good idea getting such a set instead of a standard "D-Set".

As long as I play by myself, there would be no problem... but if I play with other persons, there could be more problems. Also my girlfriend (who is a pretty good musician on Nyckelharpa, harp, accordeon) couldn't sing comfortably to a set pitched lower than c. Playing her other instruments along isn't as easy either. Pitch D would be more comfortable.


Normally I would say this wasn't a problem. But I really can't have two different sets of pipes... I know i won't have the time to play both without disregarding my other instruments.


Do you have any advice for me? Would it be more reasonable getting a set in tune of D, because it's more comfortable playing with others and because it's standard?
Or is this even relevant when getting a narrow bore set, which sounds best for me?


Thanks for your help and best regards,
Marcel

[ChristianRo]

Hi Marcel,

I strongly recommend sticking to D as a main instrument. If you prefer a mellower sound you can always play a softer reed in a standard concert (or wide bore) chanter. You can even go for a medium or narrow bore D set (Andreas Rogge makes both, I think). Anyway, as you already mention, D is the most sociable key of all. Better for learning with books or videos/online, better for one-to-one or group tuition. I have given and attended classes with people who only had a C or B chanter. No fun for them.
If you want to, you can contact me via PM for contacts to experienced players in your area. Where in Germany are you located?
Best

[PJ]

Narrow bore Ds can be a pain to reed.

[bobkeenan]

I had a flat b Geoff wooffe practice set about 10 years ago. It DID sound beautiful BUT as others have said I could not play with my tutor at the time and there we no tutorial tapes or cd's done in B. So I never progressed and eventually sold the set. I now have a concert D and I can play with my tutor and online and DVD/cd tutorials. And it sounds nearly as good. Some day in the distant future I might get another flat b chanter but for now the concert d is working really well for me.

BTW.... If you do get a B set.... I know my iPhone and I assume other smart phones have an app that will grab the tune and play it in any tempo or scale that you like. This won't work with your girl friend, tutors, or other players but the DVD/CDs can be changed to a B

[Hans-Joerg]

There seems to be some misunderstanding: Narrow-bore D chanters are quite frequent nowadays. So, "narrow-bore" does not automatically mean any longer that the pitch is "non-D". The first narrow-Ds were indeed a pain in the ass to reed but this also does not apply today any longer.
Christian´s arguments are well worth to consider. In the end it all is but a matter of personal taste. Starting and staying with a narrow-D is just as well possible.
The idea of making narrow-Ds was to have the "sound characteristics" of a flat-chanter (the idea of a more personal influence on the sound of particular tones).
A possible "Philosophie": "Wer schreit, hat Unrecht"
The advantage of a quieter reed: As a beginner you might feel more comfortable to "stay in the background".

[Titus]

Hi,

thank you all for your responses.

I just thought so... but i had to hear this from pros!

Nevertheless I'm going to visit Andreas and play different sets. I knew he also builds narrow bore D-Chanters. I wasn't sure, if "something special" like a set not in the normal pitch wouldn't fit me better. But i think it would be best, getting a D-Set. If narrow bore or not isn't the most important question now.

I'm member of the DUPG in a few days and hope to be able to borrow a practice set at first.

@Christian: I'm from 97877 Wertheim am Main. I looked with Barbara Coerdt the last time, but the nearest was Frankfurt. But i would be glad, if you can help me or know more pipers near me!


Thanks to all and best regards,
Marcel

[DjUntzUntz]

His wide bore D also sounds very nice, has a mellow tone but still a nice volume .

[mke_mick]

When I was shopping for my first full set last year, I wrestled with the same question, and was persuaded to avoid getting a narrow-bore D set because it's a paradox: a quiet set capable of playing in ensembles in which it can't possibly be heard. Although I love the loud yet gorgeous-sounding Gallagher set I got instead, nowadays I'm not sure I agree with the reasons people give to avoid narrow-bore D pipes.

I've also now got a Haneman C# set (high C#, nearly in D), and I really, really love its sound. If I didn't frequently play in large groups of other pipers (typically at least five of us at monthly club meetings), I could be very happy with a narrow-bore D set as my main instrument.

Also, some makers' narrow-bore D chanters actually sound somewhere in between the volume of a Taylor- or Crowley-style (wide bore) concert-pitch chanter, and that of a Coyne-style flat chanter. One of my club's members is waiting for a Joe Kennedy narrow-bore D set, and he doesn't think it will be a problem playing it even in our noisy sessions.

So my advice is, don't rule out narrow-bore D pipes, especially if you're mainly going to play in smaller groups (or alone). See and hear what Mr. Rogge has in his workshop, decide for yourself what sound you love best, and go with that.

By the way, many tunes in our repertoire are actually in G major, which might be comfortable for your girlfriend to sing in. Although a D chanter's "native" pitch is D maj., there's a "cross-fingering" for the note C-natural, so tunes in G (and even some in A) work quite well.

Happy piping!

Mick

[Titus]

Thanks again for your answers!

I think, I really have to decide in Rogges workshop... But I really see the advantages of playing a D-tuned Chanter... also all of my musician friends begged me not to get a set tune in C#, b or b flat

I'm going to visit Andreas Rogge, because he will definitively by my first choice. Then I hope first to get a borrowed set (probably in D) and decide for which chanter to go!


Now I only have to decide, which wood should be used... which is probably quite as difficult

[DjUntzUntz]

hey Titus,

in addition, and also in regard to what you said: if you don't wanna have two different types of sets (for example concert pitch D and a B set), but you want to be able to
switch from concert pitch to narrow bore, you can always decide to start with a concert pitch and be able to play in sessions or with other friends, and when you long for some solo practice
and a bit more mellow/sweet sound, you can just buy a narrow bore D chanter (so not an entire set). Andreas said his sets should be able to play both chanters without doing something with the rest of the pipes. In the end it's your choice but believe me, both his narrow/concert pitch chanters sound very nice

[An Draighean]

So my advice is, don't rule out narrow-bore D pipes, especially if you're mainly going to play in smaller groups (or alone).

Exactly. For most of history, uilleann pipes have been a solo instrument. Not everyone wants to play in sessions or groups.

[andyp]

Very good point An Draighean.

[Titus]

I think I would often play by myself. But I would like to have at least a chance to play with others, which could be very difficult with a flat set (except for C nat)

[Mr.Gumby]

which could be very difficult with a flat set

I wouldn't say Very difficult. It all depends on what you want and who you want to play with. On the other hand I wouldn't say C would be any easier than, say, B or Bflat.

[Titus]

Hi,

I was in Andreas Rogge's Workshop today.

After a long talk and different Hearing samples, I Chose a medium bore set, pitch D with a gentle reed.

Those are the newest generation of Andreas chanters, having a really nice sound. The volume is between a flat set and a normal concert pitch chanter.

I ordered a practice set made of plum, box and brass, and some small specials, like a tuning device for the chanter reed. I hope it will be ready in 2-3 months!


Best regards,
Marcel