Reeds and the Low E on a Concert D Chanter.

[bobkeenan]

Now that I am making lots of reeds I have noticed something odd. I have one reed that is spot on, on all the lower octave notes including the back d with no tape adjustment. And a little off on the upper octave but close enough for me.

I make another reed very similarly ( a little longer) all of the notes are even closer than the other reed but the low E needs to be taped ( about 30-40% ) to play a good low E. That is an ok fix but the tape is a little ugly, it quiets the low E, and I know that it is not necessary if I make the reed correctly for this chanter. Parameters of THE correct reed is still in a constant state of flux and learning.

So what characteristic of a reed makes that happen?

I have heard or read that experienced reed makers know where the different notes "live". I talked to my professional reedmaker, Brad Angus, and he said something on the order of that's a bunch of BS.

Anybody know how to cure a low E that is too sharp if all the other notes are fine? Anybody know "where the low E lives"?

[andymay]

Hi

I have found with my chanters that if the low E is too sharp then opening the reed helps. That's basically how i tell if the reed is open enough. If that makes everything too hard to blow then i probably need to scrape somewhere. If the back D and the a's are good then i'd scrape in the lower half toward the bridle, and leave the top half well enough alone.

Of course this can create a new exciting problem elsewhere to solve.

I'm guestimating that your longer reed must be stiffer than the other one if it plays (mostly) at the same pitch. So maybe you can scrape it and improve the 'e' situation. But then you may well have to lop a bit off the end.

Any use?

Cheers
A

[Brazenkane]

Bob,

Do keep in mind that changing one thing (length in your example) changes everything. I presume your scrape is probably different, too(?) A wee bit of tape is no harm. Tape is ugly, but it tunes, and tuning supersedes looks. Now, if you have a black-tape factory on your chanter, then there are other probs.

I'm just realizing that my posts my read oblique, and that isn't my intention. I just feel it's very difficult to pin "things" down if every time there's a new equation. Because, unless you spend time examining the sum of said equation (via building the same thing over and over), then your sum will probably be a wee bit, or a huge bit different ea. time! Then getting stuck in endless eddies of paper conclusions that give way to the slightest sharp edge...

In my own reeds, I try to repeat everything to the number and then I can deal with the variables that the different cane poses. Not to mention, all the other slight, but important differences that occur from reed to reed.

Subsequently, I have as much control as you could expect (when dealing with reeds). Nothing is steadfast in this "business" of reed building, but if you stick to one way and methodically change one element at a time, you can start to answer your own queries. Personally, I found that last bit very difficult for me. My simple desire to sort that deficiency has been greater than the frustration I'd encountered over the years that said, "QUIT THIS!"

Keep 'er lit!

[pancelticpiper]

the OP says that Low E is sharp but doesn't talk about High E. To me that's one of the strangest things about Concert chanters, the pitch differential between the Es which seems to be very common.

So putting tape to flatten Low E isn't a good option if High E is already too flat.

I've heard about makers trying various modifications of those two holes, adjusting the relative sizes of them, angling one or both of them, etc to try to overcome this sharp Low E/flat High E tendency. I've wondered about trying a Bulgarian mormorka thing on one or both of those holes to see if that would help.

The Quinn chanter I've been playing for 35 years now has this, but I've got used to veiling Low E a bit and giving High E a bit of a pressure boost, so I can keep those Es in tune mostly.

I've got two C chanters, one is a Boston Uilleann Pipeworks resin chanter that our Brazenkane made a spruce reed for, and the Es (actually Ds you know) are spot-on in both octaves.

The other is a David Daye I just got yesterday which, oddly, is designed to use a D reed, and has the Low E/High E pitch split so common in concert chanters. The rest of the gamut is in tune.

[myrddinemrys]

You'll find as time goes on that your chanter has a character of its own, and there will be roadblocks that you will run into regarding the overall tuning of the instrument. The uilleann pipes are a complex instrument, as are all conical bore instruments. If it is any consolation, bassoons and oboes do face the need for tuning corrections in their bores using daubs of wax.

I use tape on my E, and it works for me.

That rhymed!

[Brazenkane]

I made spruce reeds for them? Jaysus! I dont' recall. Nice to know things are well! Peter Hunter used to tell me over and over that the "true" E1 was hard E1, X XXX XX0X off the knee. I'm not a pipemaker, but as far as I understand things, the concert chanter is essentially an unsolvable puzzle. Es will never be perfect, etc. It's more like a puzzle of balances. Makers have their own personal priorities, and they are expressed through scale and performance of the instrument.

To my ears... the more tame/ "in tune" certain things get...the less "uilleann" the chanter sounds, and the more the nya is extracted. Also, it seems that more makers go for a chanter that is really "in tune," the less interesting the tone gets.

(lots of quotes there, lots of quotes)

[myrddinemrys]

It's more like a puzzle of balances. Makers have their own personal priorities, and they are expressed through scale and performance of the instrument.

To my ears... the more tame/ "in tune" certain things get...the less "uilleann" the chanter sounds, and the more the nya is extracted. Also, it seems that more makers go for a chanter that is really "in tune," the less interesting the tone gets.

(lots of quotes there, lots of quotes)

How to stop worrying and love the nya. Worrying about concert tuning will draw away from the unique voicing of the chanter.

[MichaelLoos]

I've wondered about trying a Bulgarian mormorka thing on one or both of those holes to see if that would help.

Patrick Sky does exactly that: http://www.patricksky.com/Photos/Practice%20set%202.jpg

[pancelticpiper]

I've wondered about trying a Bulgarian mormorka thing on one or both of those holes to see if that would help.

Patrick Sky does exactly that: http://www.patricksky.com/Photos/Practice%20set%202.jpg

Cool! Does it work?