Newbie experiences - Getting control of the high notes?

[Jleo Fipple]

Thanks everyone for the insightful replies lots of good information and much needed encouragement for new whistlers

[ecohawk]

Jleo, welcome, and I'll add a little of my experience to what you've already heard. Of course practice. I matriculated from rec*&^der to whistle so I was used to practicing intervals as well as scales. I've learned that scales are fine to do occasionally but once one gains the muscle memory to be comfortable with note locations, they don't provide much beyond what you will learn from playing tunes. However, I find practicing intervals invaluable as a tool to overcome any shyness about reaching notes up to that third D or E.

I start with octave jumps, first D-second D-third D. Then I might go first B-second B or second A-first A. Any notes beyond the second F# are often helped along by tongueing at the start until you develop more sophisticated breath control. I also play first and second octave jumps for third's and fifth's, sometimes going up and other times down. Play slowly and hold each note for the same length of time as you're jumping octaves during practice at first. This is one of the rare times I advocate for the use of a metronome, the other being when in the very beginning stages of learning a new tune from scratch. After you've become used to doing the intervals, vary the length of time you hold the notes, one beat for the first note, then maybe three beats for the second, varying it often. If you do this for 10 minutes a day I'll bet you're over the problem with fear of high notes in about two weeks.

Finally, I want to dispel any previous absolute statements about high D whistles and high notes. Not all high D whistles need an ear-piercing volume to reach the high ranges. It is absolutely true that you will develop better breath control as you become more proficient but that can only do so much. If you get a whistle from a maker directly, they will tweak the whistle to balance that out for you. You may have to sacrifice a little bit of that rock bottom D, but not much, to gain a much sweeter high range that is actually very pleasant and beautiful. You're not likely to find this in an off-the-shelf Feadog, Walton's, Gen or Clarke unfortunately. That's why there are custom whistle makers available to us. We can get what we want. Now you won't likely get what you want on the hand-made whistle second hand market either unless you're very lucky because that whistle's original owner had the whistle made the way he/she wanted it at the time and a quiet high range is not usually why one goes to a custom maker.

But, I'll put my Sindt high D (stock-brass head/silver tube), my Impempe custom high D, my Hudson Winds (good luck finding one) or my Busman custom D+ (just contact Brewer Paul) in the hands of any decent player and you won't hear one unpleasant high note out of them. You can ask my wife and dog if you don't believe me.

ecohawk

[Peter Duggan]

For some reason I find D more difficult but it is, I'm sure, practice.

Sometimes fingering as well. Two-octave D generally responds usefully to a variety of fingering adjustments on different whistles, with 'standards' like OXXOOO and OXXXXX often tamed by only partially venting (or even completely closing) T1. So try, for example, XXXOOO or XXXOOO (where the underlining represents just a slight 'leak') to take the edge off and you might be surprised!

Finally, I want to dispel any previous absolute statements about high D whistles and high notes. Not all high D whistles need an ear-piercing volume to reach the high ranges.

Absolutely agreed. But (accepting that some whistles and/or players get there more sweetly than others) I'd go further in saying I'd regard any whistle that can't produce two octaves comfortably as compromised, and suggest that treating second-octave G, A and B as 'high notes' is probably half the problem when they're not really!

[kmarty]

I'm not sure, but I think no one says that the problem is in whistle.

(I apologize if it was squidgirl - her style of writing is very complicated to me and makes me very difficult to catch whole thoughts. Not her fault, it's mine fault)

[squidgirl]

I(I apologize if it was squidgirl - her style of writing is very complicated to me and makes me very difficult to catch whole thoughts. Not her fault, it's mine fault)

My fault also. My mother was a professional writer who used words as sharply-edged weapons, and I inherited her habit of using unusual and very idiomatic word choices to imply humor. It probably doesn't translate well at all.

[Mikethebook]

Interesting Peter, I'll have to try third octave D different fingerings on my Goldie Low D. Out of curiosity do you find that alternative fingerings sometimes work better for second octave A, B & Csharp too?

[Peter Duggan]

Think you might find the third harmonics of low D, E and F# useful occasionally as high A, B and C# respectively (especially for your slower low whistle stuff), but the top (two-octave) D's the 'core range' note where you're likely to benefit most from experimentation re. taming or fine-tuning. Might also be worth noting that OXXXOO (as a vented third harmonic of low F#) is pretty well 'standard' for C# on keyless, conical flutes where OOOOOO is typically very flat, but needs greatly reduced venting XXXXOO for intonation on your typical whistle. Also that the 'leaked' venting options XXXXXX, XXXXXO, XXXXOO and XXXOOO are generally sweeter than either unvented or fully vented alternatives.

[Mikethebook]

Hi Peter,
Sounds good but you've gone a bit technical on me and one of these days I need to read a music theory primer. Are you saying that by blasting on Low D, E & Fsharp I might a nice second octave A, B & Csharp? And that the third octave D has the most room for experimentation? Then I get confused. I'm not sure whether you're discussing Csharp or D.

BTW When you said that a whistle is compromised if it can't get two octaves comfortably, I assume that "comfortably" doesn't preclude the need to give the high notes a bit of wellie!

[Mikethebook]

Sorry another question, Peter. You're writing some useful stuff here. Why do you suggest the harmonics are good for occasional use especially for slow whistle stuff. Are you suggesting they sound better than the normal fingerings? In which case why use them occasionally?
Thanks.

[benhall.1]

Jumping in before Peter gets a chance ...

You can play second octave A, B etc using D, E etc fingerings. Sometimes you might find people doing so in performance. To my ears, at any rate, these notes don't sound better than playing them using the 'normal' fingerings, but they do give a slightly different, somewhat whiffly, effect that can be used, if sparingly. IMHO. YMMV.

[Peter Duggan]

Are you saying that by blasting on Low D, E & Fsharp I might a nice second octave A, B & Csharp?

Well, I'd never describe it as 'blasting' (which strikes me as a beginners' concept born of fear and underdeveloped control), but basically yes. Especially with the minimal (leaked) venting options, when they'll pop out surprisingly sweetly once you really 'know' them.

And that the third octave D has the most room for experimentation?

Yes again. Can't even say either OXXOOO or OXXXXX is 'standard' when one's sharper and/or coarser on some whistles and the other on others. So throw in the partially- and non-vented versions and you've got a fingering for everything!

Then I get confused. I'm not sure whether you're discussing Csharp or D.

My fault. Missed a C# from the bit about OXXXOO, OOOOOO and XXXXOO, so will edit that.

BTW When you said that a whistle is compromised if it can't get two octaves comfortably, I assume that "comfortably" doesn't preclude the need to give the high notes a bit of wellie!

Have to say I'd see 'wellie' as more relative than absolute (see 'fear and underdeveloped control' above)!

Jumping in before Peter gets a chance ...

You can play second octave A, B etc using D, E etc fingerings. Sometimes you might find people doing so in performance. To my ears, at any rate, these notes don't sound better than playing them using the 'normal' fingerings, but they do give a slightly different, somewhat whiffly, effect that can be used, if sparingly. IMHO. YMMV.

Yep, not 'better' but different. And to be used where contextually appropriate (ie sparingly) rather than all the time.

[Peter Duggan]

Why do you suggest the harmonics are good for occasional use especially for slow whistle stuff.

Taming coarser high notes just when most needed.

Are you suggesting they sound better than the normal fingerings? In which case why use them occasionally?

What Ben said. Also not much use for jigs, reels etc., where they'll both confuse you and respond all 'wrong' to the breath.

[Mikethebook]

Interesting stuff! I'll put the earplugs in and experiment later. Out of interest what's your take on third octave E? With a push I can get it with XXOXXO and it sounds less strudent that D with the natural fingering but maybe you know a better or sweeter version.

[benhall.1]

Interesting stuff! I'll put the earplugs in and experiment later. Out of interest what's your take on third octave E? With a push I can get it with XXOXXO and it sounds less strudent that D with the natural fingering but maybe you know a better or sweeter version.

That fingering will do. Just don't use that note too often.

[brewerpaul]

I'm not sure, but I think no one says that the problem is in whistle.

(I apologize if it was squidgirl - her style of writing is very complicated to me and makes me very difficult to catch whole thoughts. Not her fault, it's mine fault)

Good advice all around, but Kmarty may have hit the nail on the head. The Clarke is NOT an easy whistle to play up high. Do a search for ideas on tweaking this whistle to make it easier to play. Lowering the windway roof can easily be done and may help get those notes in focus.
If possible, have an experienced whistler try out your whistle and make sure it will even go up past G.
You may want to consider another whistle-- the tweaked whistles by our own Jerry Freedman are relatively inexpensive and come highly recommended.

Sometimes, the high notes need a bit of tonguing to coax them into speaking. Instead of starting the note with a huff of air, try (silently) saying the letter "T" as you start the note. This produces a little blast of air that helps get the note started. This may vary from note to note.