Firth, Hall & Pond Flute with stuck joints- need assistance

[Achill]

Hello friends,
I will begin saying that I am new to vintage flutes. They are beautiful instruments so when I had the opportunity to buy a Firth, Hall and Pond, I did. (my main flute us a keyless Hammy by the way). So here is where I am hoping to get some advise...
I'm Having trouble getting it apart! It has four pieces: headjoint, 2 middle sections and foot. (it has one key (?) on the foot. It is boxwood. Forgive me if i'm off with my terminology Im new with these!
I was able to get the foot joint loose and out, looks like the tenon was wrapped wirh thread. The head which is connected to one if the middle sections spins and comes out some, but not completely, it looks like the actual tenon is threaded, is this suppose to be? The second middle section only spins and barely moves away from the other with moderate pressure. Im scared to death of being to aggressive with these. I tried to search for advise on this topic but came up short as to how best get the sections apart, other than alcohol.
The other issue...
The is a slight bend (doesnt seem like a warp) in the middle section which would attach to the last section (which is off). Is it possible that the thread is so bound up and uneven in the joint that it is forcing the section to be not quite straight? Or is that just wishful thinking?
At this time i have no access to posting pics, any advice on freeing these spinning parts is appreciated!
Thanks,
Matt

[Jon C.]

Hello friends,
I will begin saying that I am new to vintage flutes. They are beautiful instruments so when I had the opportunity to buy a Firth, Hall and Pond, I did. (my main flute us a keyless Hammy by the way). So here is where I am hoping to get some advise...
I'm Having trouble getting it apart! It has four pieces: headjoint, 2 middle sections and foot. (it has one key (?) on the foot. It is boxwood. Forgive me if i'm off with my terminology Im new with these!
I was able to get the foot joint loose and out, looks like the tenon was wrapped wirh thread. The head which is connected to one if the middle sections spins and comes out some, but not completely, it looks like the actual tenon is threaded, is this suppose to be? The second middle section only spins and barely moves away from the other with moderate pressure. Im scared to death of being to aggressive with these. I tried to search for advise on this topic but came up short as to how best get the sections apart, other than alcohol.
The other issue...
The is a slight bend (doesnt seem like a warp) in the middle section which would attach to the last section (which is off). Is it possible that the thread is so bound up and uneven in the joint that it is forcing the section to be not quite straight? Or is that just wishful thinking?
At this time i have no access to posting pics, any advice on freeing these spinning parts is appreciated!
Thanks,
Matt

What happens, the thread on the tenon becomes loose, due to shrinkage of the tenon. So when you go to pull the sections apart, the thread bunches up and makes it difficult to get apart. I usually just pull and twist it, to get it apart. Just pull until it is taught, then twist and pull.
The boxwood probably has warped, this is common, nothing to do about it.
Good luck with your project, when you give up, you can send it to me for restoration...

[an seanduine]

Sometimes you can 'pick' away at the thread and remove enough to separate the joints. The thread is shot anyway so no great loss. You will need a bright light, some magnification if possible, and a stout needle, say a carpet needle, to see what you are doing. I always pester my Dental Hygienist for her used dental picks (which they periodically discard) and so have a variety of sharp bent picks to reach around the shoulder of the tenon, and various tweezers as well. Patience is the key here.
I believe Terry McGee has an article giving his account of just this sort of task. If you rummage about on his site you can probably find it. Work slow. Good luck.

Bob

[Latticino]

As others have already stated, go slow and be patient. I have found that a thin craft blade (x-acto in the states) is also helpful. It typically only takes removal of a small amount of thread to loosen the joint back up.

However, before you attempt any more forceful method of getting the pieces seperated make sure you humidify the flute and attempt to get the sockets back up to full diameter. In extremity I have even used steam for this purpose, though it does remove the flute's antique shellac coating, so proceed with caution.

[Achill]

This is all great advice, thanks everyone- really appreciate you time:)

Matt

[Cathy Wilde]

Depending on the relative humidity where you are (don't know about your neck of the woods but I know how hot and damp it can get in the Catskills!), you may want to consider putting the flute in a coolish dry spot for a few days, too -- perhaps in a closet with a "DampRid" container in it or some such. If you have been humidifying the flute, give it a couple of days off and leave the case open.

Don't do anything drastic, but if you can get 20% of the humidity out of the air surrounding it for a few days the joints might shrink just enough to make a difference.

Being boxwood, your flute will react more dramatically to summer and winter changes. As such, it will require some seasonal maintenance. Expect to add some thread to the tenons in the fall and then plan to take a layer or two of thread off when the joints start tightening up in May.

Both of my boxwood flutes and my boxwood uilleann pipes are pretty happy campers in the summer, but in the winter they need extra "love" in the form of about 50 - 60% RH.

P.S. Another handy boxwood "tip" after you get the flute apart and then next go to assemble it: swab a little cork crease around in the flute's sockets with your finger. The extra waterproofing seems to help keep them from swelling up and binding the tenons after you've played the flute long enough for stuff to get damp.

Good luck!

[Cathy Wilde]

I'm laughing -- Latticino says humidify, I say dry -- we're all mad scientists! Anyway, I have better luck getting stuck boxwood apart when it's a little drier. Boxwood kind of acts like cork. I remember Kara Lochridge telling me that in Pat Olwell's shop they'd call boxwood "the flutemaker's hygrometer." It's much more sensitive to humidity than the less-porous woods.

[Jon C.]

I agree with Cathy, you want to shrink the wood, so dry is better then humidfying.

[Latticino]

My logic was I thought that that the tennon typically swells less than the socket , but I admit that I have much less experience than either Cathy or Jon with simple system antiques.

[Cathy Wilde]

My initial response was "wait 'til October" -- that's what I have to do if I want to get my pipes apart!

But you just never know with these things. A couple of keys on my boxwood Olwell get sticky if the flute gets too dry. One would think it'd be the reverse; that the boxwood blocks would swell up and bind the keys in higher humidity, but apparently not. The only thing I can figure is that when the wood shrinks in drier air a couple of the keys' pinholes and/or blocks and/or keyways warp the tiniest bit one way or another, just enough to cause a bit of an offset between the keyway and the key itself. But I humidify it and all comes right again. So who really knows?

Anyway, welcome to the weirdly warped world of boxwood!

[Achill]

Hi Friends,
Well, Long story short- I attempted to get all (4) sections loose and was successful without damaging anything. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't terrified the whole time doing this! I used some really good light, small pin, very small tweasers, and a lot of time and patience:) Great feeling when all sections were seperated and old thread was discarded!
Thanks again everyone, you have all been great- really appreciate the advice and support!
Matt