How to oil a flute - still confused

[Tonehole]

Still trying to restore a 150 year old baroque traverso out of boxwood.

It's been sitting in oil for a few weeks. I don't have enough to leave it dipped in for a whole day, and instead lubricate the bore and soak it on the outside.

It seems to 'evaporate' almost overnight!

Curious about this, I oiled a rosewood flute head in a similar way and left it. Two days later, the rosewood flute head still shows signs of oil on the surface, but the boxwood traverso has completely dried with no signs of oil. Neither has a finish too.

Is it because the boxwood is really really parched dry or maybe there are different rates of absorption for boxwood vs rosewood. The boxwood looks very dry like chapped wood in some areas. I'm thinking I should continue to oil it this way, until no more oil is absorbed (is this wise?).

I'm starting to think that this boxwood traverso is more of a historical piece of interest than anything that is likely to be played.

Btw - I decided it wasn't safe to try epoxy on this flute but wondered if

[LorenzoFlute]

You could try with tung oil.

[Loren]

Boxwood is relatively porous and has the capacity to hold a lot of moisture, unlike most of the rosewoods. At VH they pressure oil their instruments: The instrument sections go into a special metal tank filled with linseed oil and a few other ingredients that help the oil dry and seal better, then the tank is pressurized for several hours to force the oil mixture deep into the wood. After a certain amount of time the pressure is released but the instrument sections are left in the depressurized tank because a certain amount of the oil is going to seep back out of the wood - if you remove the sections too soon and attempt to dry them forget it, you wipe them down and a minute later they are covered in oil again. This is much more of a problem with boxwood than rosewood/blackwood and the boxwood has to be left longer in the tank to equalize. Our oil dried relatively quickly so this was a real issue, if you had oil seeping back out after wiping down the instruments that oil could dry hard in socket and tenon corners and it would be a real pain to get that out due to the nature of what we put in the oil as a sealant. Point being, yes, Boxwood is very different than the rosewoods, as you've found out during your oiling.

On an older boxwood instrument it's not surprising it's taking a lot of oil, what type are you using? I wouldn't get too hung up on the oiling though, I mean if you've been oiling it for weeks then you're best off to just start playing the instrument at this point, if it will play that will get it re-humidified quicker than anything. If not, then there is other work that needs to be done which oiling won't fix.

Loren

[Tonehole]

Thanks Othannen - I was trying to make do with cheap oil (about £2.95 a bottle). The tung oil is about £18.95 a litre - almost the cost of the traverso (!) Is it okay to use the same litre for other flutes and just store the tung oil in a wide neck bottle with screw cap, to leave flutes in every then and again?

Loren - can't believe we have your vH wisdom on this forum! Thanks for the advice - yes it makes perfect sense now that you've explained the higher porosity of the boxwood. I'm using the artists dilute linseed oil. I did try a thicker one, and it was like treacle. I couldn't spread it evenly.

To be honest, I'm petrified of blowing into this thing in case the whole thing disintegrates before me. There are minor surface splits (about 2-5mm) on the wood head joint, incomplete and not compromising the sounding length) and I'm thinking that maybe I should just PTFE most of the headjoint (not too tightly) except the embouchure, to stop it cracking any worse. I did blow an octave run and was surprised that it sounded acceptable. Playing barely a minute it seemed to have suddenly grow more hairline splits. I could be imagining that those happened after playing. Maybe they were already there.



I'd be grateful for any other suggestions.

[chas]

Thanks Othannen - I was trying to make do with cheap oil (about £2.95 a bottle). The tung oil is about £18.95 a litre - almost the cost of the traverso (!) Is it okay to use the same litre for other flutes and just store the tung oil in a wide neck bottle with screw cap, to leave flutes in every then and again?

FYI, I did this with some tung oil from the hardware/DIY store, and it began congealing after a few months. Upon further inspection, it had a bunch of other ingredients, so I'm not sure that pure tung oil would do the same thing.

[Jon C.]

Thanks Othannen - I was trying to make do with cheap oil (about £2.95 a bottle). The tung oil is about £18.95 a litre - almost the cost of the traverso (!) Is it okay to use the same litre for other flutes and just store the tung oil in a wide neck bottle with screw cap, to leave flutes in every then and again?

FYI, I did this with some tung oil from the hardware/DIY store, and it began congealing after a few months. Upon further inspection, it had a bunch of other ingredients, so I'm not sure that pure tung oil would do the same thing.

Here is the pure stuff! http://www.realmilkpaint.com/oil.html You can thin it with http://www.realmilkpaint.com/citrus.html

[Julia Delaney]

I am surprised that something so simple can create so much consternation.
It's much harder to make a cup of tea or to boil an egg than it is to oil a flute.
And it's harder than either to make a proper omelet.

[an seanduine]

I am surprised that something so simple can create so much consternation.
It's much harder to make a cup of tea or to boil an egg than it is to oil a flute.
And it's harder than either to make a proper omelet.

Bob

[Tonehole]

FYI, I did this with some tung oil from the hardware/DIY store, and it began congealing after a few months. Upon further inspection, it had a bunch of other ingredients, so I'm not sure that pure tung oil would do the same thing.

Thanks for the warning. I had looked, and the tung oil there did seem much cheaper. The purity of the artists' linseed oil is something I'm familiar with - just a shame they come in 50ml bottles!

[Loren]

Loren - can't believe we have your vH wisdom on this forum!

Ha! Don't be too impressed, one else is

Thanks for the advice - yes it makes perfect sense now that you've explained the higher porosity of the boxwood. I'm using the artists dilute linseed oil. I did try a thicker one, and it was like treacle. I couldn't spread it evenly.

Happy to help. As for the linseed oil, it will probably shock and dismay many here to know that we simply used boiled, that's right boiled, linseed oil purchased by the gallon from Ace Hardware or wherever. I'm sure the stuff you are using is fine. And like "Julia" says, it's a simple enough process so I don't think the oil, or oiling is the problem, or the solution.

To be honest, I'm petrified of blowing into this thing in case the whole thing disintegrates before me. There are minor surface splits (about 2-5mm) on the wood head joint, incomplete and not compromising the sounding length) and I'm thinking that maybe I should just PTFE most of the headjoint (not too tightly) except the embouchure, to stop it cracking any worse. I did blow an octave run and was surprised that it sounded acceptable. Playing barely a minute it seemed to have suddenly grow more hairline splits. I could be imagining that those happened after playing. Maybe they were already there.

I haven't seen the instrument, but from your description it sounds like it probably isn't worth spending time or money on. At the very least, more oiling isn't likely to improve it further.

Loren

[Tonehole]

Loren - can't believe we have your vH wisdom on this forum!

Ha! Don't be too impressed, one else is

In jest?! If not, I wonder if that's because there is less traverso interest here. von Huene have managed a process of flute making which is beyond the standard indie flutemaker - indeed, the majority of flute makers. I've not come across any of the European makers who have used modern technology like marine epoxy? Yes - a number will use boiled tung oil just like in the pre-baroque era, when renaissance flutes were finished by hand and oil immersion without reliance on modern equipment.

I wonder if this means that a von Huene can be played hard for longer, without risking the moisture overload which curtails playing time to 30 minutes -1 hour.

Thanks for the advice - perhaps I'm exaggerating how awful this piece of boxwood comes across. The cork is out of place so the octave tuning is irregular. I've not wished to disturb it, as I have to work out which direction to push it: either into the headjoint joint from the cap, or from the headjoint out towards the cap. This is rocket science. First, I need to learn how to make a cup of tea.

I will stop oiling it after today (one final soaking coat just applied ...!) It does look much better - there is a lustre satin finish to it now, and it no longer looks like desert driftwood.

[Denny]

Loren - can't believe we have your vH wisdom on this forum!

Ha! Don't be too impressed, one else is

In jest?!

we've prior jestings with him, we have

[chas]

I wonder if this means that a von Huene can be played hard for longer, without risking the moisture overload which curtails playing time to 30 minutes -1 hour.

The von Huene can be played virtually forever -- the surface is so smooth and hydrophobic, you pretty much don't even need to swab it out, just shake it.

I'm curious about the "moisture overload which curtails playing time to 30 minutes-1 hour." My boxwood flutes just start to be warmed up in half an hour. I have one that ovals a bit and can't be taken apart after an hour or so, but most of them, the wetter the better. My complaint with the vH was that it didn't absorb ANY moisture, so it needed to be shaken out frequently. I prefer the flute to absorb a little, which is one reason I prefer box over blackwood.

[char less]

I've never oiled a flute other than by swabbing, but I'm a bit skeptical about the high pressure method described in this thread. I'm a biologist, and to get a liquid to infiltrate an object containing air-filled spaces (such as a leaf), the standard way is to immerse said object in said liquid, place the whole thing in a bell jar and then pump the air OUT of the bell jar with a strong pump. This procedure is called (logically enough) vacuum infiltration. It's the compete opposite of increasing the pressure, which might force the liquid temporarily into the porous object, only to be forced out again by trapped air when the pressure is released. I'm not volunteering to try vacuum infiltrating my flute, but I wonder if anyone else has tried this method. It should work!

[Tonehole]

Thanks Chas. The von Huene is really incredibly tempting!

What you say about the boxwood absorbing moisture is the bit which really perturbs me: I've never owned a boxwood flute until this relic came my way. I suppose 150 years of absorbing moisture has weathered it thin and it's not ready to go through more.

Are you in a hot climate? Just wonder if that is the difference between moisture condensing heavily for your von Huene. I'd much rather the moisture was swabbed out, than absorbed, since the more moisture absorption, will lead to ccrrrack or warping.

Is there some advantage to a flute absorbing the moisture from the air column during play?