The Great and Awesome Flute Youtube Thread

[jemtheflute]

*preen*

Ha!

[MTGuru]

Sorry, Ben, I'm with Jem and Denny and Othannen on this one. Seems to me you're trying to put a label on it, then objecting that it doesn't conform. They don't claim it's trad. If it's fusion, then the way that they choose to fuse it is theirs to make. I like the choice, and you're not going to convince me I don't. It reminds me of the raw, aggressive drive I associate with Cape Breton style, the kind of feel I get when I play with Barbara Magone. An acquired taste, perhaps, that you haven't acquired. But there's a ton of craft and creativity in the clip, and I'd pay for more.

I promise I'll stop after this ...

And now I expect you to keep your promise. Even if you explode.

[jemtheflute]

Can't you hear the direness in that? I mean, really, truly, dire.

[BigDavy]

Hi ben

I think I can get you to rethink your definition of dire
Haydn - 3 Scots songs a perfect example of how good musicians and singers can absolutely destroy a song or tune.

David

[jemtheflute]

Davy, "dire" was my word - note the "+" in the quote box! (And see Ben's original wording up-thread.)

FWIW, I think those Haydn songs are fine as what they are - classical salon arrangements of trad material - taken at face value. The performance you linked is OK bar the mis-cast singer - those pieces need a lighter, more flexible voice than hers. Not her fault unless she chose the programme. She sings competently (and tolerably accurately pitch-wise) in her style (not one I like), but can't articulate either the words or the notes because she's a fruity, heavy-voiced type of soprano without the agility needed (even allowing for singing in a foreign language).

[Peter Duggan]

I've heard (not much but) enough Cape Breton and French Canadian music to know that although they use much ITM and STM material, they play it in their own style, not as it would mostly be played by Irish or Scottish players. I know far less about the Scottish tradition and what might be the "right feel" for that than I do about Irish or Welsh music...

Think there's a fair body of evidence to suggest that Cape Breton style largely preserves an older Scots style now lost to us at home?

[NicoMoreno]

It reminds me of the raw, aggressive drive I associate with Cape Breton style, the kind of feel I get when I play with Barbara Magone

Having heard a lot of Cape Breton style, I really don't hear this at all in their playing.

I'm partially with Ben on this. I didn't find it awful, but I pre-tuned my ear by listening to the telemann first. After that, it seemed to me they were playing scots tunes with a classical/baroque approach. Not trad at all* in style or approach (*well, other than the occasional attempt by Chris to play some ornaments and rolls), but not horrible either. Not something I'd listen to again, but there does seem to be a large group of musicians this would appeal to, and it's obvious they're very good musicians.

The visual, though... I have a strong aversion to such strong, un-synchronized, and fairly randomized swaying. Also, why a motorcycle garage?

[Denny]

ya they're nerds

[MTGuru]

It reminds me of the raw, aggressive drive I associate with Cape Breton style, the kind of feel I get when I play with Barbara Magone

Having heard a lot of Cape Breton style, I really don't hear this at all in their playing.

I don't mean, of course, that I'd mistake it for the real thing, and not that I'm an expert on CB. But I think I can hear a hint of that influence informing their approach. And the musicianship and integrity behind the intent of any effort is one of several criteria* that I tend to judge on, regardless of whether I personally like the result or not. In this case I do, but more importantly I think the intent is legitimate here. Once that's established, the appeal is a matter of taste, and not everyone is necessarily the target audience for everything.

*Another being whether the musicians have "paid their dues" to entitle them to take liberties, which I suspect is also true here.

[Trip-]

I've just stumbled upon these clips yesterday and me too will have to disagree with Ben (sorry Ben ), these has successfully caught my musical attention, something that happens very rarely should I add. Of course this isn't traditionally rendered though it is musically rich; great competence, interesting compilation, tightly synchronized, fresh sound using those instruments and most importantly all these color a style of their own. To me this can mean alot and to my thinking means alot about musicianship.

I will have to take my hat off for that although I didn' t understand the motorcycle scenery at all.

[Peter Duggan]

Also, why a motorcycle garage?

I will have to take my hat off for that although I didn' t understand the motorcycle scenery at all.

The clue appears to be 'at the Vax Moto sessions', where Google tells me Vax Moto is a motorcycle garage/workshop and someone appears to have organised some sessions/gigs there...

FWIW, I quite like it but think it maybe works best from about three minutes in, where the tempo picks up and it sounds least 'arranged'.

[jemtheflute]

Haydn - 3 Scots songs a perfect example of how good musicians and singers can absolutely destroy a song or tune. David

By way of a slightly oblique response to Davy's Russian Haydn murder (*no trad element/associations whatever*), here's some very very tasty period instrument Bach - if this lady ('s voice/vocal technique) was substituted into Davy's clip, even the modern instruments and playing approach would seem rather more OK.

Or this singer....... By reverse token, imagine transplanting the Russian lady (foghorn) into either of these Bach clips..... utterly inappropriate. She should stick to post Schubert material (or post Wagner!) or adjust her technique/aesthetic approach.

(Both the clips I posted above have gorgeous obbligato flute parts, BTW. )

Here are some rather better takes on some of Haydn's Brit folk material arrangements (flute-free ):
http://youtu.be/yB5PCKfmbFw
http://youtu.be/VLe5japmy6A
There are more..... not just from this singer - I found quite a lot of nicely done examples. It's not trad at all - but it isn't meant to be, and I think it is absolutely valid for classical composers to utilise and adapt trad material - heck, if they didn't there's an awful lot of awesome classical music we wouldn't have! (Think Dvorak, Britten, Chopin, Janacek, Kodaly, for just a few of the more obvious ones.....) and of course, the whole Romantic era (especially) saw a great deal of use of folk material and pseudo-folk composition (much of which certainly cross-fertilised with the actual traditions) just as it also saw the flowering of the collection and publication of the actual trad material.

[LorenzoFlute]

Scottish music has a different feel from Irish music. I much prefer the mix Scottish/baroque than Irish/jazz...
Listening to the clip again, and without watching it (the video IS quite distracting, even if not necessarily bad), I can say that there are things I don't like so much (especially from the violin's part), but I find it enjoyable nevertheless.

[benhall.1]

I think it is absolutely valid for classical composers to utilise and adapt trad material.

Of course. You'd have to be mad to suggest otherwise. (IMO)

[MTGuru]

I think it is absolutely valid for classical composers to utilise and adapt trad material.

Of course. You'd have to be mad to suggest otherwise. (IMO)

You rang? Bwa ha ha ha!!!

I think the only reason we don't usually consider classical borrowings of folk melodies to be "fusion" is convention or long practice or complacency. It's as much of a mash-up as fusing folk material with jazz, rock, pop, whatever, with the same sorts of issues good or bad.

There can also be serious questions of cultural imperialism, exploiting folk resources for artistic, social, or financial gain without really giving back to the source community. And ironically, the worst offenders have historically often been socialist states.

Just saying you don't have to be crazy to make an ethnomusicological issue of it.

Bwa ha ha ha!!!