Pre-1980's generation

[bernez]

Hi,
What's the difference between pre-1980's Generation whistles and the later ones ?
I know there was a change in the design of the mouth piece, but what exactly ?
If somebody could post some pics, that would be great.

Thanks,
Bernez

[Feadoggie]

If you are trying to identify an older whistle versus newer models, there is a pronounced oval shape molded into the underside of the mouthpiece on the older heads. Newer ones are smooth.

Here's a photo from another thread. I'll look for other pics that could help.



Other than that one difference I personally have not cataloged any other minutia in variations.

Feadoggie

[Mr.Gumby]

The plastic headed ones of the 60-70s had a narrower window, which made for a different balance/voicing. They're slightly quieter and (equally slightly) better balanced between the octaves.

[Feadoggie]

I was assuming you were asking about the plastic head Gens. Peter's family tree photo of Gens through the generations is beautiful.

The molding process of the older plastic heads left a noticeable ridge at the parting line of the molds. That is visable on both the top and bottom of the older plastic heads. Peter mentioned the difference in window and windway size too. There are also some differences between the ramp shape especially the "bump". Thankfully the character of the whistles is still similar. Older whistle is up top.



Here's handful of older Gens I grabbed from my box just to show the variation in the backs of the heads. Not an artistic photo but hopefully an informative one.


Hope that helps.

Feadoggie

[bernez]

Thanks a lot for the pics, Feadoggie and Peter,

I can now clearly see the differences
It looks like I have 3 pre-1980's (C, D, Eb). All my other Gen's are modern ones.
There's one on ebay advertised as a 1960's Gen, but I already had some doubts. It's why I asked.

Thanks again.

Bernez

[bernez]

BTW, do you know in which year Generation made the change

[Feadoggie]

BTW, do you know in which year Generation made the change

I do not have an exact date. In fact I will admit to being totally oblivious to the change when it occurred. As a buyer of Gens it was hard to tell. You buy your whistles and they last a long time. I only buy new ones when the old ones give up the ghost or when I've been caught out without a whistle to play. Then when you consider that some shops may have old stock on the shelves for quite a few years a player may not see a difference until years after production methods changed.

But the date has been discussed here as a matter of historical curiosity. I believe MTGuru may have been working in a large music shop at the time and he has estimated the change happened sometime in the mid 1980's. Hopefully he will add his perspective here. I think Jerry Freeman (who has probably seen more Generations than all of us combined) may have some idea of a rough date as well. You can search through old threads here to read the discussions if you like.

Feadoggie

[Mr.Gumby]

Around 1981/2 there was a D whistle available in Ireland under the name 'Darra' They were brass with a green top with a green label showing an Irish harp.

I don't know anything about them but my impression has always been these were a test run, the head was identical the new Generation design. It may also have been a marketing ploy, an attempt at shedding the 'british made' label for the Irish market, tensions were high at the time.

Anyhow, Generation whistles were sporting the new head design soon after.

[MTGuru]

I believe MTGuru may have been working in a large music shop at the time and he has estimated the change happened sometime in the mid 1980's.

Yes, that's right. As I recall, the new heads began showing up in the US distribution channels around 1984. Which is consistent with Mr. G's estimate.

[Mr.Gumby]

Here's the Darra whistle:





pic is a bit of a rush job, am cooking the dinner at the minute.

[Jerry Freeman]

Here's the Darra whistle:

Very interesting, Mr. G.

If we can find identifying mold marks, we may be able to determine whether or not the Darra whistle was made with the same tooling as current Generations.

Here's the photo of current Generations showing identifying mold marks.

Left to right: D/Eb, three dots (left side); D/Eb, faint concentric rings; Bb one dot (top); Bb two dots.

Originally, there were more cavities than two, as one or more cavity has worn out and been retired. If, for example, you see one or two dots similar to the three dots visible on the end of the Generation D/Eb whistlehead on the left, I would take that as strong enough evidence that the same tooling was used for the Darra and current Generation whistleheads.

(By way of explanation, one set of injection molding tooling will have several cavities making parts that appear identical except for the mark identifying which cavity produced which part.)

Best wishes,
Jerry

[bernez]

Great information, thx Jerry.

[Mr.Gumby]

Two dots on the top (window) side and (as far as I can see now) concentric rings. You'll have noticed it needs cleaning and the head has never been removed in all those years so the view is not the best. Two dots for sure though.

[Jerry Freeman]

Two dots on the top (window) side and (as far as I can see now) concentric rings. You'll have noticed it needs cleaning and the head has never been removed in all those years so the view is not the best. Two dots for sure though.

I would say that raises the possibility that whistlehead came from current Generation tooling to at least 50/50. Now if anyone can find an old, current tooling Generation with those same marks, we'll know for certain.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[bernez]

The lenght of the head of my modern D is 2.256" (57.30mm)
The voicing window 0.223" X 0.315" (5.70mm X 8.00mm)
The external diameter at the barrel side is 0.650" (16.50mm)
The embouchure is 0.335"X 0.079" (8.50mm X 2.00mm)

Bernez