Can someone define "sweetness"?

elendil · Post by **elendil** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 1:26 pm

yes, but...
my experience with tuning forks is that they produce a tone that is relatively rich in overtones--not an organ pipe, but not lacking by any means. perhaps another example would work: the fiddle. it's obviously an instrument that is very rich in overtones, yet that doesn't prevent a good player from producing an almost ethereally pure tone: overtones aren't the enemy of purity. a whistle like the sweetheart is also much richer in overtones than a generation or a clarke, but it produces a far purer tone. bottom line, of course, i play 'em all, depending on what i'm looking for (except my fiddle, now, due to rotator cuff tendonitis).
but that leads me to another question. your taste in whistles seems to run toward mine, judging from your excellent analysis of the sweetheart. i found your sound clips extremely interesting (and clear), particularly the contrast with the burke. i just ordered a dixon soprano as a backup/knockaround for my sweetheart pro d (several people in this thread have characterized their dixons as "sweet"), and you seem to own just about every whistle under the sun. what do you say about dixons--how would you characterize them to someone who's nuts about the new sweetheart? i'm hoping it will be in better tune than my generation in the top register, but relatively undemanding in its breath requirements (easier than a susato, for example). oh, one more thing--what do people mean by "back pressure"? anyone else who wants to, please join in.

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:36 pm

If the overtones are all in the harmonic series, then the instrument will sound pure. The tone quality (not purity) will depend on the amplitudes of the harmonics. For example, if the overtones consist only of odd-numbered harmonics, the tone will sound hollow, like a very pure clarinet tone in the bottom register. If the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th harmonics dominate, the tone will sound more like a flute. An "impure" tone is caused by the presence of overtones (and non-musical noise) which are not in the natural harmonic series.

A sine wave generator will produce only the fundamental frequency with absolutely no overtones, and it sounds hideous!

I need to qualify things just a little. The harmonics produced by musical instruments are effectively only the first few. It is possible to artifically generate any waveform whatsoever by using a large portion of the harmonic series. For example, one can produce a perfect square wave if an infinite number of harmonics is allowed, and a square wave sounds like a jackhammer.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ridseard on 2003-03-02 16:47 ]</font>

elendil · Post by **elendil** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 5:08 pm

thanks much, ridseard--i knew i was over my head. now, would you like to give a scientific opinion on the vexed issue of what effect the material used in constructing a whistle might have on the sound? does the material used relate in any way to overtones/harmonics? polymers, natural woods, laminated wood, brass, tin, aluminum, bone, whatever? i personally find it hard to accept what some say, namely that the material doesn't matter. a somewhat scientific colleague of mine suggests that metals can be problematic because they vibrate and cause disturbances that may be unwelcome. he also says bore shape will definitely have an effect, as well. thanks again.

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 5:30 pm

Sorry, Tinuviel, I don't know anything about how the material might affect tone. I'm just a mathematician who did a lot of harmonic analysis once upon a time.

elendil · Post by **elendil** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:52 pm

that's OK. since i got my new sweetheart pro D i've just gotten fascinated with the complexity of wind instruments. ralph sweet told me the laminated wood is essentially a plastic and should be pretty impervious to humidity and moisture. plus, it has a beautiful 'sweet' 'pure' tone that's in tune through 2 octaves. but i should be receiving a dixon tomorrow as a backup, which most everyone seems to agree is another 'sweet' toned whistle. btw, that is one cool webpage you've got there. i have 60-70 rose bushes in my yard, so the little rose pitcher definitely appealed to me.

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:24 pm

tinuviel wrote:...judging from your excellent analysis of the sweetheart.

Ooh! flattery will get you anywhere!

and you seem to own just about every whistle under the sun.

Nah. . .not even close. JessieK comes a lot closer to THAT! And she's been doing it for longer than I have. "I am just an egg".

what do you say about dixons--how would you characterize them to someone who's nuts about the new sweetheart.

I played one Dixon for a few weeks that I thought was tremendous, great sound, easy player and a sound that I liked very much. I bought a used Dixon and found that its tuning was not to my tastes. One person that I showed it to said it was tuned like an Irish flute, and I didn't understand until I got my flute and found that it's F# was flattened also. Regardless, I found that I wasn't playing it much even after jerry-rigging the critter to pull the whole thing into my concept of in tune.

I'm not sour on Dixon, though. I also played a Dixon with a brass slide that had a great sound, and like it more than the Susato...another durable non-metal/non-wood.

Backpressure is far easier to explain than sound. You breathe with a certain pressure into the whistle, and the friction of the air in the whistle, and narrowing of the windway pushes back at you. Some whistles don't do it much like the Alba. Some push back a LOT, Overton to me is the top on this. I don't particularly like either end of that .

paulsdad · Post by **paulsdad** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:18 pm

Sweetness - Delicious, refreshing, loveliness. Kind of like eating partially frozen peaches on a hot summer day, or seeing blooming redbud trees in the spring. A pure, fresh, innocent tone that is so pretty it almost hurts.

Does that "kinda sorta" explain it?

Cheers! Paulsdad

burnsbyrne · Post by **burnsbyrne** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 10:30 am

paulsdad wrote:Sweetness - Delicious, refreshing, loveliness. Kind of like eating partially frozen peaches on a hot summer day, or seeing blooming redbud trees in the spring. A pure, fresh, innocent, tone that is so pretty it almost hurts.

Does that "kinda sorta" explain it?

Cheers! Paulsdad

This is perfect if you add some heavy cream to those peaches

Mike

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 5:26 pm

I reached for my Clare at a stoplight yesterday and picked up an Oak instead. Not noticing, I played some and thought, "I never noticed how sweet the sound of the Clare is." The Oak may be the sweetest-sounding plastic-on-metal whistle out there.

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Can someone define "sweetness"?

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