McCarty Unofficial Tour-Flute Review Thread

[benhall.1]

One of the other things that puzzled me in Jem's review was that he said that the flute was "heavy". I didn't think it was. It feels light to me, kind of insubstantial, but then again, I don't have any other keyless flutes to compare it with.

At any rate, I've just weighed it, prior to shipping it back to the States. It weighs 310g. Can someone confirm whether or not that is heavy for a keyless flute?

[hans]

A fairly normal weight, perhaps slightly on the heavier side?
In comparison:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48262

[jemtheflute]

Nice work Ben. Especially on the PFLO detective work. However, that still doesn't forensically prove anything, unfortunately. I agree completely that it appears very, very likely that McCarty is buying and "decorating" those, but we can't prove it. We have to allow he could be buying in the same metal furniture and cases but turning his own wood, and we have testimony that he has a stock of wood blanks. Short of some kind of timber analysis showing the tour flute really is (or isn't) American Hickory (I've certainly seen hickory hammer handles etc. which are closely reminiscent), or James_Alto's is Black Walnut, etc...... or McCarty contradicting his previous statements (unlikely) or a spy catching him red-handed receiving a delivery of entire flutes and bagpipes from Pakistan, we'll probably never know the truth.

I'm short of time, so you'll have to excuse a quick rush through some salient points:

As for intonation and "horsing" - I don't think I was doing any "horsing" - not that I was aware of and certainly not deliberately - and in the tuner clip I was deliberately trying not to! As far as I'm concerned, I just picked each flute up and played with a roughly normal amount of attention to intonation and no great effort to modify or bend anything. Even in the tunes clip, I was consciously trying to take a neutral approach, to let each flute demonstrate itself. Moreover, I certainly played each of them much less well than I would if I "played myself in" to them - say playing each exclusively for half an hour before recording with it. You can see in the clips that it was a pick-and-go situation - and because the Tipple requires a rather different embouchure/playing approach, as does the Rose to some extent, I played those rather poorly.

There are, of course, no C naturals at all in my sample tunes, neither TMoMK nor TMP, only C#s. IME on the vast majority of simple system and keyless flutes the upper (top of 2nd 8ve) C# is way flat played as ooo ooo, even if a C key is vented, and oxx xoo(,) is the "normal" and required fingering, whether or not most ITM players use it. I have (met) some flutes (mostly Pratten derived types) which had an OK top C# if played o,oo ooo, - but I'd venture that almost all keyless flutes, whose C# (top) tone-hole's configuration is compromised by trying to provide C nat cross-fingerings, have a flat 1st 8ve C# (ooo ooo) and the 2nd 8ve one will be unusable with that fingering, oxx xoo being the only viable one (yes, it can be a tad sharp). Without having the flute to hand, I can't really comment any further on the C naturals, save that I really didn't notice anything salient about them or I'd have commented in my review.

When I look (/listen! ) back at the clips I did, I still don't find the McCarty's intonation unlistenably awful or terribly much worse than the other flutes sampled, bar the PFLO, which I still think is a couple of orders of magnitude worse! The poor tone due to the rough embouchure bothers me far more.

Ben may well be right about the result of me tuning to G (something I automatically do with our kinds of flutes as the As are normally slightly sharp). I confess I did not consider it as a strategy beyond that. Looking back at the tuner clip to me the worst weaknesses are that D and E in the 2nd 8ve are significantly sharp (OK fundamentals) and the whole L hand in the upper 2nd are seriously sharp (A and B fundamentals slightly sharp). The low F# is flat - but no more than one expects with no F or Eb keys to vent. The C nat in the G scale is very slightly sharp, again, well within norms for keyless flute cross-fingerings. I doubt choosing a different note to tune to would improve things generally. It would be very interesting to see RTTA analyses of the tune clips I did of each of the five flutes - but I have neither the time nor the software set up to do such myself. If anyone out there is willing to do so, they'd be doing this thread a great service!

I don't recall that e.g. the Seery keyless which passed through my hands a few years back was stunningly better. The Rose (a reputable make) I sampled fares differently but not, on average, much better, and I have a friend who has a Burns small hand folk flute which is in the same ball-park for intonation, IMO.

I am definitely not carrying a torch for this mediocre (!!!) flute, but I still feel that, with a tidied up embouchure and if buyable for no more than the price of a Tipple, it wouldn't actually harm a beginner. The embouchure is, for me, the biggest issue.

It would be interesting to get a bunch of the PFLOs Ben discovered and see how acceptable and how consistent their tuning is! Have the makers of these things begun to respond to all the long-standing criticism and improve them from the kind of thing my own is an example of?

[Akiba]

I'm short of time, so you'll have to excuse a quick rush through some salient points:

I excuse you of the quick rush. (Man, if this is "a quick rush through some salient points"...)

[Doug_Tipple]

I'm short of time, so you'll have to excuse a quick rush through some salient points:

I excuse you of the quick rush. (Man, if this is "a quick rush through some salient points"...)

Yes, you could never accuse Jem of being less than thorough.

[MTGuru]

I excuse you of the quick rush. (Man, if this is "a quick rush through some salient points"...)

I have it on good authority that Jem's performances of "The Minute Waltz" require two intermissions, and a barber standing by for those whose hair has grown too long during the concert.

I am definitely not carrying a torch for this mediocre (!!!) flute, but I still feel that, with a tidied up embouchure and if buyable for no more than the price of a Tipple, it wouldn't actually harm a beginner. The embouchure is, for me, the biggest issue.

The irony is that if someone were to make an explicit business of buying up PFLOs and tweaking them into good playability at a beginner's price point, and not just cosmetic alterations, they'd have an enthusiastic following here.

[I.D.10-t]

The question would be whether they are consistent enough to be tweaked, and then the price is still above other flutes of known consistency/quality.

[MTGuru]

The question would be whether they are consistent enough to be tweaked, and then the price is still above other flutes of known consistency/quality.

I'm not sure that makes logical sense, ID.

Part of the very purpose of tweaking is to turn inconsistent instruments into consistently playable ones, with the tweaker's quality assurance of consistency. And from Jem's description, the touring flute, if it's representative of its breed, may have that potential in competent hands.

I suppose a wholesale buyer could even arrange to have the flutes supplied without tone holes and embouchure hole pre-cut, leaving checking and tweaking the bore as the main concern.

There's certainly a precedent for exactly this sort of tweaking model in the whistle world, with considerable success.

As for the price, at $25 per PFLO in bulk, a retail price competitive with that of a Delrin flute could be within reach.

[Akiba]

...a barber standing by for those whose hair has grown too long during the concert.

That is really funny. Thanks for the best laugh I've had in weeks.

Jem, we love you, man.

[I.D.10-t]

I had a PFLO that was tweaked and it still had some tuning issues (to my ears). In addition the wood seemed to be weak around the tenon and had cracked. I am sure that one could have pounded dowels into the finger holes and drilled new holes to make it play better, but at some point you are spending as much time undoing work as you are making an instrument.

I guess the thing is, there isn't a supply of $25 flutes out there to tweak unless you include PVC pipe, and I think there is a person doing that.

[MTGuru]

at some point you are spending as much time undoing work as you are making an instrument.

Sure, agreed. It's a hypothetical idea, and the devil would be in the details. Culling poor candidates from bulk purchase is definitely part of the tweaker's task.

I guess the thing is, there isn't a supply of $25 flutes out there to tweak

In his post above, Sir Ben found that the McCarty-like PFLO sells for $25 from the Pakistani supplier. Am I missing something?

[I.D.10-t]

I guess the thing is, there isn't a supply of $25 flutes out there to tweak

In his post above, Sir Ben found that the McCarty-like PFLO sells for $25 from the Pakistani supplier. Am I missing something?

Missed that, all to do now is to say I was wrong (and I was).

[Steve Bliven]

...Sir Ben found that the McCarty-like PFLO sells for $25 from the Pakistani supplier.

Have all the moderators been promoted to Knightery?

Best wishes.

Steve

[MTGuru]

Have all the moderators been promoted to Knightery?

Yes. In our spare time, we go around dubbing each other various names. "I dub thee this, I dub thee that ..." It's quite stimulating. But "Sir" is the only name that's printable here.

[jemtheflute]

you could never accuse Jem of being less than thorough.

You could. But you'd then have to wade through my rebuttal - doubtless a dissertation on the fallacies of such an accusation.

Anyway, just 'cos it came out fairly lengthy doesn't mean I spent much time on or didn't rush my last post or pay less attention than ideal to detail......

As for the be(k)nighted, I've no taste for Chopin' and changin' or intermittent waltzin', even if it is secondary.