Variations in whistles.

[Ted]

We have all seen a variety of playability in most models of whistles. One of a particular model may stand out as great, while another may not play as well. This is very understanding in the cheapies, but I have seen this in the expensive models as well. My MK low D, for example, is a great one. I have played a few others which were more sensitive or otherwise not something with which I would be happy to play. Should one send such an instrument back to the maker for possible tweaking? You pay a premium for these instruments, so it seems to me you should be able to get the performance you have seen others of the same model produce. Some of the instruments sold second hand are sold because the original purchaser was not happy with how that particular whistle worked for them so they passed it on instead of going back to the maker with it. Perhaps the maker could not or would not be of help, so they decided to cut their losses and pass it on to another unsuspecting soul. I would particularly be interested in feedback from the makers here about how reasonable my thoughts on this seem, although feedback from others, especially if they have been through this process with a maker, would be good as well.

[Mr.Gumby]

Whistles, cheap ones tweaked ones and expensive ones nearly all vary a bit, no two are exactly the same. I always recommend to try the whistle you're actually buying before you hand over the money. If that isn't feasible, send it back when it's not right.

It happens. Most of the time variation is within reason, you just pick the one that suits best while the rest of the batch are perfectly fine, albeit maybe with a slightly different voice. Sometimes though some real poor ones get to the customer. No reason to accept that. It's worth checking if your maker is actually a good player who can try his instruments before he sends them out (or has people working for him to do that job). Someone who is a poor or mediocre player can not properly assess the performance of an instrument.

[edited for a minor clarification]

[MTGuru]

I should think that's all very reasonable, Ted. If an instrument is defective or way out of expectations, the maker should make good on it. If it doesn't suit you but may suit someone else, then pass it on.

I've sent back two I can think of - one very high end, the other low end. The high end I acquired second-hand, and I knew it needed revoicing when I bought it. The maker, who was under absolutely no obligation to me, spent an hour on the phone discussing my preferences, then revoiced the whistle to my specs, charging me not one cent. The other low end instrument suffered from intonation problems, which I described by phone to the maker in detail. He then sent me a retuned replacement at no cost, which corrected the flaws. And (I believe) he incorporated the improvements into subsequent production. Needless to say, I consider both these cases to have been good experiences, which I've described in greater detail elsewhere on the Chiffboard.

I also have a low D whistle which turned out to be a fairly early example of the maker's production, and which later underwent a substantial change of design to address, in part, the very thing I found problematic. Contacting the maker, he expressed 100% willingness to do whatever is necessary to satisfy my concerns. And though I decided to keep the whistle as-is for now, I have no doubt that the maker stands behind his work.

[brewerpaul]

If you're spending the big bucks, you definitely have a right to be satisfied!
Most high end whistles are voiced by hand using knives, files, sandpaper, etc. Even tiny variations in the dimensions of the blade, fipple plug and windway can make significant changes in the tone of the whistle. I've often included two or more whistles in one batch cut from the very same piece of wood, and had them come out sounding very different. Not necessarily better or worse, just different personalities. For me, this is one of the great joys, mysteries, and sometimes frustrations of making whistles.
I'd be very happy if every purchaser immediately fell in love with their new whistle and found it perfectly to their liking. Most people are indeed well pleased, but sometimes a buyer wants a different sound and if it's at all in my power, I'll happily accommodate them. Short of catastrophic traumatic damage requiring totally rebuilding a whistle, I never charge for repairs. I want people out there to be happy with my instruments and I think that most whistle makers would feel the same way.

[PhilO]

I've returned 2 whistles over the years, both of which were very high end and one was in sore need of revoicing while the other was horribly unplayable; the one was revoiced and the other replaced. More interestingly, I once casually remarked about some less than perfect playing characteristic of a whistle and that maker, without even saying anything to me first, sent me a set of whistles at no charge. Again, all good experiences.

Philo

[James_Alto]

Most of the whistles I've bought have been via the internet, so yes it's very hard to get to test before buying.

Maybe I've found it less of a problem with higher end flutes, which are set up in the workshop and tested before departure. But some of the commercial whistle sales shops, just seem to be mass means of hoarding volumes of whistles for financial sales, rather than focussing on musical qualities.

I'm moving more towards the smaller flute/whistle maker, rather than the off the shelf item for my whistle stops. In general, I've found whistle and flute makers much more accommodating for post-production problems, than say, manufacturers of Japanese electronics and their sales shops.

[pancelticpiper]

As you know Ted I've been through that with MK Low Ds. The one I play now (which I bought from you) is the third one I've owned. None of them were bad whistles, not at all, but they were all a bit different and I'm in the ongoing process of finding one as good as yours! (I have no "experiences with the maker" to share with MK as I have not been able to contact Misha and the three MKs I've owned were purchased used, for that reason.)

I bought a Copeland Low D right from the shop which had very poor voicing: the Low E and Bottom D were so feeble that they barely sounded at all. It played nothing like the other Copeland Low Ds which I've tried over the years, which have been excellent. I returned it.

My experiences with Burke and Susato Low Ds is that they are extremely consistent from whistle to whistle. At one time I owned three or four Susato Low D heads which all played identically. (I had them on Low D, Low Eb, and Low E bodies but I could switch them around.)

[Chino]

Very interesting discussion.

There are 3 possibilities I think:

1/the whistle is bad because of a problem in the making process
2/ the player is bad because of a problem in the making process
3/ the whistle doesn't suit your style of playing.

I sent back my Copleand Low F to Michael, not because it was bad, but just because it was too "easy" for me, and he accepted very kindly (and freely) to make adjustements to have more backpressure. Michael Copeland is a lovely man.

I also sent back to Hammy Hamilton the head of an HH Low D which had a default, and he replaced it freely, although I bought the low D second hand. Hammy Hamilton is a lovely man as well.

I know Colin Goldie do the same: some years ago, I ordered him a Low F# "modal", and he sent me a normal Low F#. Not only Colin repay me, but he told me to keep it. Colin Goldie is a lovely man as well.

Concerning Misha, I've got a great black MK Low D. But if you don't satisfied with it, you've got 21 days to sent it back to him, and he sends the repayment. And I'm surprised Pancelticpiper couldn't join him: Misha is very busy, but he has always replied me very kindly to my emails. Misha Somerville is a lovely man as well.

Jerry Freeman has offered me to sent me a repayment whereas I didn't received the 2 whistles I had ordered him. Fortunately, I received them! And he's always OK to fix a problem, even if you have bought one of his whistles second hand some years ago. Jerry Freeman is a lovely man!

And I can say the same thing for Pat O'Riordan of course, and some others.

Conclusion: when you're not satisfied, contact the maker, even if you bought a whistle second hand or in a shop. Great makers are lovely men!