I don't like/play ITM

[benhall.1]

No.

[Mr.Gumby]

I'm just surprised that someone would claim not to LIKE ITM, on this site.

It takes a certain type of personality to do that. That said, there are always a few people on C&F who make a point of doing so.

I always try to imagine what the reaction would be if I for example would make a point of declaring on every occasion I don't play and detest Kwela. People would think I was being an arse about it. And they'd be right too.

Disclaimer : I do not detest Kwela, it was was it said : an example

[benhall.1]

Disclaimer : I do not detest Kwela, it was was it said : an example

I hate the small print. Takes all the fun out of things.

[Nanohedron]

I'm just surprised that someone would claim not to LIKE ITM, on this site. For what it's worth, I don't like Rap or heavymetal so I don't go to rap or heavymetal forums and tell the people there that I don't like the music that they are discussing.

That's why that sort of commentary would be inappropriate in the ITM Forum. It would be outright trolling. But this is the Whistle Forum, and this thread came about as a reaction to a response to the question, "What's Your Story?", in another thread. It's a fair question, sociable, and by its nature encompassing. Whatever it may be, an honest and pleasant-enough response to this, especially in the Whistle Forum, is not out of line.

Dale's intent for this whole website is not just subject matter, but online socialisation in reasonable (and sometimes silly) fashion. That is the meat and potatoes of the whole shebang.

[Akiba]

I play ITM 90% of the time, mostly on my keyless blackwood flute (on whistle and metal flute as well). I play classical music on a regular metal flute, but only when I'm paid to do so. ITM is so hard, particularly on flute, I don't understand how others play all different styles and instruments. I feel I have to stay focused in order to be decent on the instrument in this genre; not enough time and energy to do otherwise.

About not liking ITM, I'm cool with that. There's always room for all different types of styles and tastes. Why I'm obsessed with ITM fluting (whistling), I couldn't tell you; it's a mystery. I just go with it.

[MatthewVanitas]

You know, though, there's a really, really good reason to pursue ITM-style whistle playing: technical mastery. ITM whistle technique is downright killer like no other, and mastering those chops and having them in your pocket is going to carry over to other musics when you want them. You don't even have to play ITM in the long run, nor even make your stuff sound Irish at all. But you'll have the chops, and they will never fail you.

That's a really interesting point, though I think it may be more a matter of available materials and documented technique than purely just the complexity of the tradition. Kwela seems awfully complex, and it may be that Breton 'whistlers have a whole lot of technique derived from Breton flute. But the catch is that we can hit the Links and find hundreds of sites explaining 'whistle crans, rolls, holding jig rhythms, O'Neill's etc., all readily available and in English. Whereas we'd probably be much harder pressed to easily find comprehensive tutorials, tunebooks, and technique discussion in English for other schools of 'whistling.

For what it's worth, I don't like Rap or heavymetal so I don't go to rap or heavymetal forums and tell the people there that I don't like the music that they are discussing. I admire most musical styles and musicians!

Again, I don't think going to a HM site and dissing HM is quite the parallel. Coming here and not liking ITM is more like going to an Electric Guitar forum and occasionally posting "you know, I'm really not into rock 'n' roll at all, I mostly use my electric guitar for jazz, and I do some avant-garde prepared-guitar stuff." Again, if a guy kept dragging that into every Rock thread it would get annoying, but it'd be perfectly apropos in any thread about differing styles.

I'm just curious as to how many other CFers don't like ITM. Surely there can't be many on this site, if so, what are you here for? Lets just call it a poll. Do you like or dislike ITM?

If there is some amicable and low-troll way to do such a poll, I'd suggest a more nuanced approach, something with options like:

- I love ITM and it's the primary reason I play 'whistle
- I'm into ITM overall, but I follow various other styles in addition
- I mostly enjoy and play non-ITM, but I listen to and dabble with ITM from time to time
- ITM isn't very important to me at all, I'm mostly into other styles
- I really don't like ITM, and I'm happier staying out of the ITM scene with my 'whistle

In addition to poll responses, it would be cool to see posts explaning what styles they play on 'whistle, maybe even in order of precedence. I think I probably do know more ITM tunes on whistle than any other single tradition, but that's mostly because I was listening to a lot of ITM when I first started playing whistle. I don't think I've learned any new ITM tunes in the last 5-10 years, but I've certainly added a lot more tunes from other traditions.

Yeah, this thread is really stirring me to dig up some more Breton and start playing along with recordings. Gonna go to the new Breton thread and get some advice on what key I need, and which recordings I might want to pick up.

[Nanohedron]

About not liking ITM, I'm cool with that. There's always room for all different types of styles and tastes. Why I'm obsessed with ITM fluting (whistling), I couldn't tell you; it's a mystery. I just go with it.

There's this Irish fellow I socialise with over drinks; he grew up during the 20th century Gaelic Revival being force-fed with "The Dydle-ee Dye", as he calls it (his dad drove a nail into the radio so you couldn't change stations), and so understandably he is not the only Irishman who has no time for it. He's studying jazz piano. I for my part know nothing of jazz other than as it chances to hit my ears. BUT: we enjoy each other's company and are able to discuss music in general from our perspectives, and the comparing of notes is something that we find most entertaining. It's good enough for me. Refreshing, even.

[JackCampin]

I play a fair few older Irish tunes, but I do it in Scottish sessions and in a style adopted by Scottish players. Irish tunes have been part of the Scottish repertoire for a long time. But I don't much like either the contemporary Irish flute/whistle style and its repertoire, or the ITM session scene with its macho competitiveness, humourlessness and occasional thinly disguised nationalist bigotry. (Irish players who did play in a style rather like the Scottish one were Micho Russell and John Doonan).

[quote]ITM whistle technique is downright killer like no other[/quote]

Phooey. How much Irish music do you suppose this guy played to get like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBQag61MIzI

[Nanohedron]

ITM whistle technique is downright killer like no other

Phooey. How much Irish music do you suppose this guy played to get like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBQag61MIzI

C'mon. He's tonguing.

Pretty good stuff, though!

[chas]

ITM is so hard, particularly on flute, I don't understand how others play all different styles and instruments.

Jason, in my case the explanation is easy -- I just don't play (any style) nearly as well as you.

I listened to a lot of ITM and played it exclusively when I joinet the C&F. That was a long time ago, and my tastes in listening have drifted back to prog rock, other types of folk, and Tom Waits (no real category for him ), while my playing has expanded to include baroque and English dance music. I still listen to some and play quite a bit, but it's not the passion it once was.

[MTGuru]

and occasional thinly disguised nationalist bigotry.

As opposed to, say, thinly disguised Scottish nationalist bigotry?

[JackCampin]

[quote="MTGuru"][quote="JackCampin"]and occasional thinly disguised nationalist bigotry.[/quote]
As opposed to, say, thinly disguised Scottish nationalist bigotry?[/quote]

I had in mind the reaction you get if you say anything positive about English music or music or culture in some ITM sessions. It's only a minority that react that way but you rarely have far to look to find one. People in the Scottish music scene don't seem so driven to put other cultures down.

[AvienMael]

I always try to imagine what the reaction would be if I for example would make a point of declaring on every occasion I don't play and detest Kwela. People would think I was being an arse about it. And they'd be right too.

Disclaimer : I do not detest Kwela, it was was it said : an example

Great point, and well stated. You know, as I ponder on all of this discriminatory and prejudiced thinking as pertains to music, I find myself wondering why I am thinking about this at all. I grew up playing flute and electric guitar, loving death metal, with a jazz drummer - turned - jazz guitarist for a father. Other than white angry rap and talentless country personalities who make a living covering old Top 40 tunes, I can find something good about almost everything out there. Seems sad that anyone out there doesn't get the mettle of ITM... few genres of music capture as many qualities of life as does ITM.

[MTGuru]

I had in mind the reaction you get if you say anything positive about English music or music or culture in some ITM sessions. It's only a minority that react that way but you rarely have far to look to find one. People in the Scottish music scene don't seem so driven to put other cultures down.

Fair enough, there's some of what you describe. But you can't divorce the music from the history. After all, there was no Irish plantation of England or Scotland (well, Dál Riata, but ...). And bigotry is a charged word when applied to the residual attitudes of a colonized people toward their colonizers, particularly in the context of one of the primary aspects of the cultural patrimony (i.e., music) to have survived. A complex history calls for a degree of sensitivity and nuance, lest description be read as accusation.

[PhilO]

I got into it for the ITM and love it more and more every day over 20 years or so; however, not to the exclusion of other music including rock and roll and R&B, etc. I don't play anything on the WHISTLE but ITM and won't quit or switch until I've mastered it, and you know what that means.....

Best,

Philo