A theory question, if I may.....

[DrPhill]

I am learning a tune and it has an interesting feature. It seems to drop from the melody line occasionally to a single note below, then back again. Yeah, it is a fiddle tune .

Does this 'feature' have a name? Is there any theory behind it? For example, a common number of semitones for the drop? My guess is that it has something to do with either the spacing between the notes in the chord being played, but my music theory is not up to working it out.

eg:

eg|f3Af3e|d4-d4|

eg|a3a a2e2|f3F fe3|d3A g3f|f4

The second example has two of these 'drops' - one is a whole octave.

Any help gratefully received.

[benhall.1]

I'm not aware of a name for what you're describing, Phill. But melodies, both those to songs and dance tunes, as well as airs of various kinds, often have jumps, up and down, within them. The sort that that I think you're describing, where there is a sudden jump and then back to the same note, will generally be to another note within the chord of the implied harmony at that point in the tune. Melodies do imply harmonies, and typically for western music there will be a common triad that will fit at any point in a tune. The jump will be to another note within the triad, of which the note which is departed from and returned to is one. So, your jump f3Af3 implies to me a possible triad of Dmaj. In a different tune, it could be F#min, but less likely IMO, just because ... well, just because. Mind you, it could be that a guitarist would harmonise that second f# in your example with a chord which is basically a chord of Amaj, resolving the harmony back to a chord of Dmaj for the next note, d. Guitarists have names for these sorts of things, so I'll let one of them chime in here.

[DrPhill]

Ok, thanks Ben. I thin you are saying that these are just features of a tune, with no real significance other than I just noticed them. That is fine, I learn more by being wrong. They just stood out to me when learning the tune on a whistle. Maybe I have 'avoided' airs/tunes with this style up to now.

My initial though was that f3Af3 was a variation of f3ff3, opening up the possibility of using similar in other tunes.

(Oh and so you can confirm your guess, the chords for that part are written as eg|"D/F#"f3A"Asus"f3e|1"Gsus"d4-d4:| - which means very little to me ).

[benhall.1]

There you are, see. See that "A sus" thingie in the guitar chords there? Told you them guitarists had names for these things.

In the meantime, actually, I think your second post there does raise an interesting question - it is, indeed, possible to use that sort of dip, in the right place, as a sort of variation in quite a lot of tunes. Mind you, you have to know where, and exactly which 'dip' will work in the place you're thinking of. And, whilst there is a little bit of theory involved, mainly I reckon it's just experience will tell you what to do where, I'm afraid. So ... experiment. Try it out. One or two places may strike you as being a nice variation.

[DrPhill]

As far as Asus2 goes - its all Greek to me (or jazz).

It is good to know that my thinking is not too far off the mark. But as usual it comes back to 'feel', 'judgement' and 'experience', which I am still lacking. Ah well......

[JTC111]

As far as Asus2 goes - its all Greek to me (or jazz).

To make a sus2 chord, you simply replace the III (third) with a II (second).
For example, a C major chord is C-E-G, which is the I, III, and V notes of the C major scale.
I-C
II-D
III-E
IV-F
V-G
VI-A
VII-B
VIII-C

The Csus2 chord would be C-D-G.

[DrPhill]

As far as Asus2 goes - its all Greek to me (or jazz).

To make a sus2 chord, you simply replace the III (third) with a II (second).
For example, a C major chord is C-E-G, which is the I, III, and V notes of the C major scale.
I-C
II-D
III-E
IV-F
V-G
VI-A
VII-B
VIII-C

The Csus2 chord would be C-D-G.

Thanks, Jim, but I am not good enough to do chords on the whistle yet.......

[JTC111]

Thanks, Jim, but I am not good enough to do chords on the whistle yet.......

Well, if you had two friends with whistles...

[DrPhill]

[hans]

My initial though was that f3Af3 was a variation of f3ff3, opening up the possibility of using similar in other tunes.

More like f#3 a f#3 e d4.
"Folding" the low note up an octave can sometimes give you a better idea of the melodic line (and an idea of the chords, here df#a, D major).

(Oh and so you can confirm your guess, the chords for that part are written as eg|"D/F#"f3A"Asus"f3e|1"Gsus"d4-d4:| - which means very little to me ).

Ben was spot on with his suggestion of an A chord variation, i am impressed!
Phill, if you like to look, here are two charts which may appeal to you, regards to chords. At least these are an easy readable reference:
http://www.piano-lessons-info.com/piano ... grams.html
http://www.piano-lessons-info.com/chart ... hords.html

No idea what an Asus2 should be, guess it was a typo.
Asus (= A suspended) is A D E (the major third of the major chord A C# E is raised a semitone).

[DrPhill]

Oooops, Hans, I realize that I left out the key signature (##), so you are right, those are f# not f nat.
And yes, the 2 seems to have been my mistake - comes of trying to speak a foreign language.

Thanks for the chord links, and to JTC for chord help, but I am not sure if my brain can cope with too much more music theory - unless you think that knowledge of chords will help my whistling progress.

[benhall.1]

If you think you're getting a chord lesson from me, you can go and whistle.

[MTGuru]

To make a sus2 chord, you simply replace the III (third) with a II (second).

No idea what an Asus2 should be, guess it was a typo.
Asus (= A suspended) is A D E (the major third of the major chord A C# E is raised a semitone).

You're both right. When given without qualification, suspended means a suspended 4th, not a suspended 2nd. Think of the classic "Amen" cadence IV(6/4)-I: e.g. CFA->CEG. F and A resolve stepwise downward. But if you delay (momentarily "suspend") the F->E resolution, you get the suspension IV-Isus-I: CFA->CFG->CEG.

But sus2 is not a typo. In guitar chord descriptions, that's perfectly legit, and it means what Jim said. sus2 and sus4 are just different beasties.

[DrPhill]

Well, since we have got into chords......... (about which I know nothing)

I am transposing something with chords, and most I can write into ABC easily. ( e.g. "Asus2"). But some are represented by a triangle, and some by a 'division sign' (horizontal line with dot above and below). The originator of this notation is not on email and I do not know where/how to search for these symbols and what to use in the ABC. Any clues?

I do not need the chords, but it completes the task.

TIA

[dspmusik]

yes, technically "Asus" is not enough information. it has to be Asus2 (ABE) or Asus4(ADE). it replaces the 3rd with either the 2nd or 4th (suspending it, making it neither major or minor)
side note, you can always use sus2, but cannot use sus4 on the IV chord (which has a #4, Lydian mode) and stay diatonic (inside the natural key).
sorry to use so many technical terms, but the Esus, Dsus, etc. thing is a personal pet peeve of mine. It's like saying, "Hi, my name is." They need to finish the sentence with vital information.

Also, not understanding ABC notation, is the technique you're referring to an ostinato or pedal tone? where the melody note is separated by a repeated lower or higher note? this comes up a lot in Baroque music (see Vivaldi), and is easy to do on instruments like fiddle since you can play on one string and blast another string below or above it.