What is "lipping up"?

[Larry Marshall]

Several experience players have made references to 'lipping up' a particular note. Is that something that can be explained to a n00b?

Cheers --- Larry

[Denny]

drive the whistle sharper

some whistler will get to ya on that, I understand the flute version, but...

[chas]

As Denny was alluding, it's possible on any flute to sharpen or flatten a note by changing the shape of your lips. It's possible with some whistles, not with others. Try blowing harder or softer, changing the angle of the whistle in your mouth, changing the shape of your mouth, etc., and see if you can bend notes on your whistle.

[ecohawk]

Gawd, I'm probably opening another can of worms here since I'm not nearly as accomplished as most of you. I didn't know it was called "lipping up". But I've discovered an old trick used on harmonica. If you form your lips, cheeks and tongue as if to say, without actually using your voice, "wow" while starting a note, particularly if you slide into it, many whistles will sound as if the notes are bending. Seriously. I can assure you that my brass Chieftains, Mellow Dog and Goldie A handle it well, as well as my Bb Sindt and my Jerry Gen Bb. It doesn't seem to work as well on my Burke's with the exception of the DBN to a lesser extent. May have something to do with back pressure, except that wouldn't apply to the Mellow Dog. Hell I don't know why. But it works. Mostly.

Try it sometime.

[KittyR]

Try it sometime.

Not working for me.

But I couldn't do it when I tried out harmonica either.

[MTGuru]

It's a flute term that, frankly, I don't think I've ever heard applied to whistle before, except maybe by very loose analogy. Are you sure you're not confusing flute / whistle context?

[pancelticpiper]

"Lipping up" is I think more of a brassplayer's term, which when applied to the flute is a bit of a misnomer, as you change pitch with the jaw, not the lips themselves.

Check out classical flute pedagogy and you'll read about it. Pulling the jaw back flattens the flute's pitch, pushing the jaw forward sharpens it, by changing the angle of the flute's embouchure hole vis-a-vis the lips. "Horsey face" I've heard classical flute teachers call it.

The lips change to alter the speed of the airstream and how focused it is, which you do when changing octaves, and adjusting the volume.

Anyhow on the whistle there's a fixed tone production mechanism and it varies from whistle to whistle how much you can alter pitch with the strength of the airstream.

I was comparing my Burke Low Eb to my Bernard Overton Low Eb and that was one of the major differences. The Burke was a bit on the "go/no go" side of things especially in the second octave, while the Overton had a huge range of pitch/volume variation there. It's possible on that Overton to blow the second octave rather softly and keep increasing until it's very loud, the pitch varying with the volume.

On my MK there is also a great amount of leeway in blowing both octaves.

[Innocent Bystander]

Ha! Yes, I've used "Bending down" the notes, as they cry it for harmonica. I mentioned it a while back in another thread, and got a resounding silence. Since I don't play flute (overtone flutes tend to have mouthpieces like whistles) yes, I'm pretty sure you can do it on a whistle. Leastways, on my own polypropylene whistles, you can.

[Denny]

well, the trad forums do tend to be a bit straight for bending, don't they

[ducks]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6fQnTyEniM

[Larry Marshall]

It's a flute term that, frankly, I don't think I've ever heard applied to whistle before, except maybe by very loose analogy. Are you sure you're not confusing flute / whistle context?

Look here...first post. Claim is that a flat note was 'lipped up':

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=81816

It's easy for me to claim confusing. It's my best thing. But in this case I've just heard people talk about it but never explain what, exactly, is done with the lips to do this. I'm so new to this that when the note is sour I blow harder whether it needs it or not

Cheers --- Larry

[cboody]

I think the term really comes from brass and reed players where you actually to lip things up or down. Then it seems to have become a general term for adjusting pitch. I've heard fiddle players talk about lipping up a note.

[Ronbo]

I know that you can change the note on a flute by changing your embouchure or blowing at a slightly different angle to bring a note in-line. That can be lipping up.

I dont believe that you can "lip up" a whistle. To do that, you would have to have a helluva pair of lips, capable of engulfing the whole the thing down to the end of the fipple .

Whoops, just reminded myself of something. I remember seeing a video of some people who had cultivated the ability to play a whistle with the whole fipple in their mouths, except for a tiny bit of the opening showing. It enabled them to bend notes and play a jazzy kind of tunes on them. Sounds were nice, but the picture wasn't real pretty. believe it.

[KittyR]

it seems to have become a general term for adjusting pitch.

Exactly.

[benhall.1]

I think the term really comes from brass and reed players where you actually to lip things up or down. Then it seems to have become a general term for adjusting pitch. I've heard fiddle players talk about lipping up a note.

I must admit, this one's been going through my head a bit ... I don't get it. I think I may even have used the phrase myself about playing certain notes on certain whistles into tune, even though it must come from other wind instruments where the lips themselves can actually have an influence, such as a flute, oboe, clarinet, brass instruments etc. But I can't get it to apply to a fiddle at all. The essential element of the concept, for me, is the idea that there is a note that will sound if you 'do nothing' (ie don't try and do anything special when playing that note) and that you then have to do something different to get the note to be in tune. But that concept doesn't apply to a fiddle. The open strings should be in tune (so no "lipping up" possible, or necessary, there, unless they've gone out of tune) and you have complete freedom where to put your fingers for the fingered notes - you just have to put them where a note will be in tune. No adjustment necessary.

By which, before anyone says, I'm also saying that I don't think the term "lipping up" applies to effects such as glissando, portamento or the 'trick Cs' we all know and love.

All this is just how I see it. Out of interest, like. Not trying to impose a definition on anyone else or ennyfink ...