"Irish Bb" flute d'amore

[LorenzoFlute]

I'm surprised Casey, you said you won't be making fully keyed footjoints anymore but you're willing to make a Bohm system keywork...

[talasiga]

Its not surprising if one is aware that most makers are often dogged (according to my readings and converstaions with various makers) by simple system keyed footjoints.

It is a matter of recorded history that Boehm footjoints are not rabious.

[benhall.1]

Which leads me to wonder - by no means for the first time - why on earth they didn't do the Boehm style foojoint much earlier, and, as soon as they knew about it, incorporate it into the design of the simple system flutes. I mean, the Boehm footjoint is clearly better, isn't it? And does the same job ... so why?

Is this worthy of a new thread, does anyone think? Or has it been done to death hereabouts before and someone can point me in the right direction?

[talasiga]

well I like to see your point in this topic ben because it goes toward the whole issue of why someone (like me) would consider a Boehm key version when there are umpteen makers of simple system Bb flutes with keyed footjoint down to Ab.

I have given my personal reasons in the previous page but there are probably a raft of other reasons that could promote the thing.

[jemtheflute]

there are umpteen makers of simple system Bb flutes with keyed footjoint down to Ab.

Without watering down the point about mechanical advantages of the rod-axle foot mechanism in any way, just to point out there are not "umpteen" current simple system makers offering full 8-keyed simple system low Bb flutes. There are quite a few offering keyless ones now, some of whom might add a few keys on commission, but hell, there aren't all that many makers offering 8-key D concert flutes routinely! Wilkes, Grinter, Burns that I can think of offhand "offer"/have been known to make 8-key low Bbs. I haven't gone to The List to check, but I can't casually think of (m)any more.

As for Ben's point, there are qute a lot of later C19th and early C20th simple system English flutes with the Bohm style foot mechanism - both Hawkes and Boosey took to it, and so did Rudall Carte. However, doubtless among the persistent users of 8-key flutes there was a degree of conservatism of taste. Even pewter plugs for old-style foot-joints often persisted after card backed pads that would have worked better were developed - and were used by some makers (routinely on non-English SS flutes).

[talasiga]

Alway likes to nitpick our jem does. I think umpteen means many but a many that we cannot be definite about which is precisely what I meant

.......Wilkes, Grinter, Burns that I can think of offhand "offer"/have been known to make 8-key low Bbs. I haven't gone to The List to check, but I can't off-hand think of (m)any more.

well, and without looking, we can also add Lehart, McGee, Ormiston.

http://lehart.free.fr/site/content/instruments.php?l=3

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Low%20flute%20models.htm

http://www.ormistonflutes.co.uk/flutes.html


There you go, I have left the diacritc out of Lehart. Pick on that.

[dunnp]

If were being nitpicky then I have never see or heard of a Lehart with more than six keys.
Ormiston does as we know Norman Holmes showed us one in his thread.
I'm sure Mcgee would try it as he seems willing to try anything?
I would guess Peter Noy maybe as well but just a hunch.

[dunnp]

Reading some old posts add Abei to the list as well.

[jemtheflute]

talasiga, I agree (!), 'umpteen' means 'many', 'rather a lot', - and by implication of the suffix, not less than a dozen plus 1. Subjective though I acknowledge this opinion to be, less than 10 would come under such descriptors as 'a few', 'several', not 'umpteen'.

Nits (and noses) adequately picked....

[Casey Burns]

If you read my post more carefully, Lorenzo, you would see that I am contemplating using off the shelf keywork available from the band instrument suppliers such as Allied Supply for any Boehm flute experimentation. Modifying axles to correct length is an easy thing. Too short - just add a spacer. Too long, cut some off. This is a bunch easier than starting from the raw metals!

My low flute keys for the G and G# are difficult since I do have to make these from scratch - and these present almost insurmountable ergonomic problems. My hand still are hurting after this flute!

Off to the outcrops. Echo Canyon today. Eocene sand dollars. Will be up behind Thomas Aquinas College. But not on the trail where everyone else goes.

Casey

[benhall.1]

talasiga, I agree (!), 'umpteen' means 'many', 'rather a lot', - and by implication of the suffix, not less than a dozen plus 1. Subjective though I acknowledge this opinion to be, less than 10 would come under such descriptors as 'a few', 'several', not 'umpteen'.

Blimey! How wearisomely correct. In the cirumstances, I may actually like this ...

[benhall.1]

... oh, except that I've just thought of something ... what would your descriptor be for a number between 10 and 12 inclusive, Jem?

Please don't feel obligated to reply.

[LorenzoFlute]

Ehm, about 11?

[Denny]

preumpteen

[jemtheflute]

I'm sure that, were it at all relevant in context, if pushed/I could be bothered (and I wanted flagrantly to flout Ben's injunction), I could probably come up with about a dozen possibilities.