It's a small point, but. . .

[Cubitt]

Why does everyone here refer to the D# key as Eb? The instrument is in D and there are no flats in that key. When you play a chromatic scale, the note that follows D is D#. On a Boehm flute, we call a Bb key (thumb) Bb only because it is held down to facilitate the playing of Bb every time the B note is played. You would not use the Bb thumb key when playing A#, so calling the thumb key a Bb key makes sense. If you wrote music where what you are calling Eb is used, it would be written as D# unless you were in a flatted key. Eb, especially on an instrument for ITM, does not make sense to me.

BTW, in James Galway's book on flute, he refers to the key on the Baroque flute as D#; in Boehm's book, he notes that in his design, he retains the C, C# and D# keys of the eight-key flute. That seems definitive to me.

Just got to wondering because I see this all the time. Am I missing something? Or am I just being cranky?

[MTGuru]

Am I missing something? Or am I just being cranky?

Maybe and maybe.

We had something like this debate on the Whistle forum a while back.

Sure, there's no Eb in the D Major scale. There's no D# either.

If you're writing an ascending chromatic scale, chances are you'll write it by sharping the preceeding note when possible, hence D#. If you're writing a descending chromatic scale, chances are you'll flat the preceeding note when possible, hence Eb.

So the choice of name has little to do with the key of the instrument. In 12-TET, Eb/D# are fully enharmonic, so what you call it is completely arbitrary in the absence of a scalar context. In a temperament where there's a difference, the choice again depends on musical context, with the player adjusting the intonation accordingly.

In theory, a fully keyed flute can play in any key. And historically, as an orchestral instrument and in terms of major scale roots, Eb Major (3 flats) is far more likely to be encountered than D# Major (5 sharps + 2 double sharps!). Hence the tendency to think of that key as an Eb key, nothing more. That's my conjecture, anyway.

[Cubitt]

Good points, all. My reference to instrument key was to point out that it is used primarily to play in sharped keys. It just seems odd to me that an instrument used (at least for ITM) in the keys of G, D, A and the relative minors would name a key in its flatted mode rather than the sharp. Given that Boehm and Galway think of it as D#, I feel inclined to picket for D#, but then I have time on my hands, today.

[Steve Bliven]

I have 1-key Sweetheart flute. I was given to understand that one of its primary abilities is as a vent vent allowing a stronger E (and maybe F) note. Hence the link to the Eb notion — at least in my head. In real life, I just turn it around to get it out of the way, rendering it the "null key" in activity.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

Steve

[jemtheflute]

I wouldn't take anything wee Jimmy says as "definitive"! Great tongue and fingers, but not the brightest spark.....

I kinda take your point, Cubitt, but it's really a question of tradition - of the 5 basic keys that make a keyless D flute chromatic, two are most commonly named for flats - the Bb and Eb, and 2 for sharps - the F# and G#. The 5th is, of course, the C natural. You could name any of them by their enharmonic equivalent equally validly. I think MTGuru may be on to something with his supposition about how likely a player (not modern music orchestral!) is to encounter each note by which enharmonic name. It probably hasn't got that much to do with "proper" music theory. So far as I recall, to the extent that I had modern flute classical lessons when I started on flute and knew other classical high-school level fluters, it was always referred to as the Eb key even if a D# was to be played! Ditto the Bb - and the Bohm flute alternative fingering with R1 for Bb/A# was talked of as Bb, not A# too! (In any case, as they sound the same, one uses whichever is most convenient fingering in a musical context regardless of which enharmonic is notated!) I haven't gone to look at any, but so far as I remember beginners' Bohm tutor books mostly don't give the keys as such names, but because they usually progress through the key signatures from C adding a sharp and a flat one at a time, a learner will almost always meet the non-C major fingerings in the order F#, Bb, C# (no key on either Bohm or simple system), Eb, G#, Ab etc. - and so associate the keys with note-names they first used them for. But of course, they will also be taught to vent the Eb key from the word go and the teacher, if not the book, will probably call it the Eb key!

Quantz's flute had both an Eb and a D# key, of course (but no others).

[jemtheflute]

Picking up on Cubitt's comment in his last post about playing in sharp(ened) keys on a D flute.... I don't quite agree. We play loads (in ITM) in G maj and E min modes - which on a D instrument is physically (not notationally) playing "in one flat" - you have to flatten one note of the basic, open scale. Playing in C is "playing in two flats" etc. That's kinda why the notated flat key signatures are a further reach (mentally at least) for a D fluter (Baroque or 8-key) than for a Bohm fluter whose fingering pattern is ambiguous as to its "home key" (though a Bohm flute is still acoustically a D flute!).

[lament]

In my experience, in different musical contexts, the names Ab, Bb, Db, Eb and F# are much more common than G#, A#, C#, D# or Gb.

[Cubitt]

Picking up on Cubitt's comment in his last post about playing in sharp(ened) keys on a D flute.... I don't quite agree. We play loads (in ITM) in G maj and E min modes - which on a D instrument is physically (not notationally) playing "in one flat" - you have to flatten one note of the basic, open scale. Playing in C is "playing in two flats" etc. That's kinda why the notated flat key signatures are a further reach (mentally at least) for a D fluter (Baroque or 8-key) than for a Bohm fluter whose fingering pattern is ambiguous as to its "home key" (though a Bohm flute is still acoustically a D flute!).

I take your point, but that's a bit of a reach. I'll stick with Galway (despite your strange dismissal of him as an expert) and Boehm, to whom all honor is due, IMHO.

[MTGuru]

In my experience, in different musical contexts, the names Ab, Bb, Db, Eb and F# are much more common than G#, A#, C#, D# or Gb.

Then your experience must not include Irish trad and related musics, in which G# and C# are universally common, and Ab and Db nearly non-existent.

[Akiba]

I'm with you, Cubitt--it's a damn D# key in my mind from now on. E flat me arse.

[MTGuru]

I'm with you, Cubitt--it's a damn D# key in my mind from now on. E flat me arse.

Well there you go. That's as good a counter-argument as any.

[benhall.1]

I agree. It really is a small point.

[MarkP]

it's an Eb key, it's always been an Eb key, it's an Eb key on other instruments too, it's one of life's mysteries, live with it

[benhall.1]

What is it on an Eb flute then? Presumably it's an Fb key ...

[Denny]

better a "f-flat" than an "e key"


this is not a visual joke....work with me here