Tripping Up The Stairs

[Mr.Gumby]

Simply listening to good players and being in the company of good players goes a long way.

I also believe firmly in stretching a tune and in fact DO al the things you can think of to a tune, in private, and then throw out the stuff that sounds like sh*t. It is great for helping you understand how tunes sit together and work.


[edit] The language nanny is twisting my words

[benhall.1]

I also believe firmly in stretching a tune and in fact DO al the things you can think of to a tune, in private, and then throw out the stuff that sounds like sh*t.

I think that is absolutely spot on.

[StevieJ]

Ofcourse there's a gaping aesthetic chasm between all things you can do and the things you should do.

That's what I was attempting to say, in a more roundabout fashion.

[Mr.Gumby]

I know Steve, I was once more re-stating the obvious.

For all the good it did me in the past

[benhall.1]

I know Steve, I was once more re-stating the obvious.

For all the good it did me in the past

Oh, poor you!

[MTGuru]

And how does a new, or even experienced, player determine what things he/she "should" do to avoid the dreaded aesthetic chasm?

Stand well back from the edge?

[walrii]

And how does a new, or even experienced, player determine what things he/she "should" do to avoid the dreaded aesthetic chasm?

Stand well back from the edge?

Steve and Gumby seem to be saying "Go ahead and fall in, just don't do it when others can here the fall." I'm guessing aesthetic chasms don't hurt near as much as, say, falling in the Grand Canyon. After falling in a few times, one probably learns where the edge is.

[pancelticpiper]

Ofcourse there's a gaping aesthetic chasm between all things you can do and the things you should do.

All the variations I posted are the sorts of things done by good players all the time on many different tunes. It's the very builiding blocks of Irish music.

[Clarinetcat]

Interesting discussion, thanks again for all of the replies.

Rather than worry to much about getting close to the edge and trying a huge variety of variations, for now I will simply be focusing on becoming more familiar with the tune (memorization) and playing it, well... cleanly.

[Mr.Gumby]

Well, one could argue there's more to it than, as Séamus Ennis once said, 'rolling off the notes like a good typist typing'.


Yes, Panceltic, but there is a difference between having an approach to a tune as a whole within the traditional aesthetic and having a chart of 'building blocks' and treating them as interchangeable. Which I think is a rather mechanical approach. It's useful knowledge on one level but for good playing one needs to move beyond it. It's good to know the tools available to you but it's more important to know how to use them properly and effectively.

Been there. Have the t shirt.

And that's why I said that by all means, try it all. But for godsake listen to what you're doing and chuck out the things that make your music sound like you're doing something to a tune rather than with (or for ) it.

[Clarinetcat]

Well, one could argue there's more to it than, as Séamus Ennis once said, 'rolling off the notes like a good typist typing'.

Yes, one could argue that.

But of course, we really don't even need to argue about that, do we?

[jemtheflute]

Ah, I see everyone is keeping their tongues firmly in their cheeks......

I would quite often tongue (or glottal if you prefer) the second of the repeated notes (in both A and B musics) as another alternative - breath push (but don't tongue or finger-articulate) the on-beat, slur to the middle note of the triplet, tongue the third. This (and similar figure) is one of the instances where I might teach a beginner to tongue initially rather than use a finger articulation, offering those as alternatives a bit later. (Mostly I'd go the other way around!)

I also sometimes use full rolls on the paired second and third notes - not the "short roll" that starts with a cut and thus undesirably accentuates the middle note, but a full one more-or-less in the time of the third quaver - so still slurring first to second note, then getting in a very quick roll which preserves the bounce of the tune, the normal emphasis pattern within the triplet, the tap of the roll being on the beat of the third quaver, notated in full like this in ABC: FA{B/A/G/}A GB{^c/B/A/}B - or more readably, FA~A GB~B.

This tune also lends itself, as others have said (T-shirt for Mr Gumby!), to easy variation on these particular bars (A1 & 5):

FAA GBB basic can be:
FA{t}A GB{t}B ({t}= tongue)
~F3 ~G3
FA{G}A GB{A}B (taps)
FA{B}A GB{^c}B (cuts)
or do one with a cut, the other with a tap, e.g. FA{G}A GB{^c}B
FA{B/A/G/}A GB{^c/B/A/}B = FA~A GB~B
FGA GAB
FAF {A}GBG
FAd GBe
FEF {A}GFG
FDF {A}GEG
FD{F}D GE{G}E
FED GFE
F/G/AF G/A/BA

etc. see image below:



Another thing this tune can use is a C# roll! (Bars A3 & 7, B7)

As for the pedal figures in the B music, I'm less inclined to muck about with them - either tongued third notes, or plain cuts or taps or just maybe the occasional fast roll...... or......

[Mr.Gumby]

Well, that's my point illustrated.

[jemtheflute]

Well, that's my point illustrated.

Which one?

I wasn't suggesting using all of 'em in any one rendition!

It's good to know the tools available to you but it's more important to know how to use them properly and effectively.

Absolutely agreed.

[Steve Bliven]

So, reviewing JemTheFlute's options and accepting that not all of them should be used in any single playing, which ones fit into the wretched-excess-bringing-us-to-the-brink-of-the-chasm or in-such-poor-taste-they-shouldn't-be-considered-in-an-ITM-context (this, I believe is the "sounds like sh[moderator intervention]t")category and should be avoided?

Best wishes.

Steve