I recently bought a couple of the Yamaha clear, coloured plastic soprano recorders and once again asked myself - why is it so easy to get a great, very cheap, consistently good recorder (in very cool colours) but darn near impossible to get the same quality in a cheap (or even not-so-cheap) whistle? You would think that the folks at Yamaha would jump on the Riverdance bandwagon and start making whistles - I bet they would even sound like whistles & not recorders!
Hohner once produced tin whistles that are now collectable.I agree with you on the high quality of inexpensive recorders…a cheap Moek or Yamaha puts a Generation to shame and little wonder whistles dont compete in the education system, and with the exception of Susato, which is excellent, most cheap whistles with their sharp edges could easily injure a five year old and even Sweetones have a high rust potential although designed with children in mind.My daughter will begin with the recorder at her school in a few days and as a whistle is simply not an option I will be purchasing a recorder for myself as well as for her and the clear plastic Yamahas would seem an ideal choice. 
Mike
Wow. Very interesting point. I had never thought of it before. And, I’m particularly interested in the recorders vs. whistles education matter. Although I reallly don’t have anything against recorders, it should be obvious that the whistle, with the simpler fingering system, would be a better choice for educating children about music.
Dale
It is probaably a matter of choosing what you know, in this coutry children get tinwhistle lessons in school and it seems to work as well for them as the recorder does in other countries.
On another point mentioned: why have these Hohner whistles become collectors items I wonder. I had one (a low G)I bought in 1979 and honestly it never was any good to me. When an american friend dropped in last year he went mad for it. We swapped items and were both happy, but still woinder what the fuss was about.
As the last post comes from Clare,
let me say that I think the Clare
whistle is a good, safe, regular
non rusting cheap penny whistle.
I wonder where I can get another
one? I have the kind that comes
in half. Anybody know? Best wishes…
On the education issue (and echoing
what Dale says above), I learned
recorder when I was 7 or 8–in
summer camp, in fact (circa 1950).
I’m glad I did, too.
But they never taught me the upper
register and I rather doubt that the
teachers knew it themselves. I would
think the upper register on the recorder,
with its pretty intricate fingering
and the half holing of the back hole,
would be hard for kids. The whistle
is all there very quickly–I have
seen little kids learn to play
the whistle with alarming dexterity.
I wonder how recorder is taught these days?
OT Re: the Clare whistle (sorry, can’t help much on the main thread - no recorders at my school ).
Jim -I’m a newbie but also a fan of the Clare whistle, and I just got my 1 piece brass Clare online from the Whistle Shop (www.thewhistleshop.com) - they also have the 2 piece. I’m sure there are other places, too, but my experience doesn’t extend very far. I can vouch for the Whistle Shop’s good customer service and good prices.
Hope that’s helpful,
Paul
(edited twice b/c of that darn “spelling” issue)
[ This Message was edited by: Paul Patrick on 2001-10-14 11:25 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Paul Patrick on 2001-10-14 11:28 ]
Jim - My school taught the recorder to us in third grade, and they never taught anything higher than the high C of the first octave. I asked my teacher what was next and she had a tough time with the second octave. Over the years I figured out most of the second though. I think a second octave G is the highest I can reliably get.
I know that in my area (but not the same school) they tend to wait until 6th grade to teach it now - and the kids seem to have less interest in it then.
When grade schools teach kids to play recorder, they don’t really teach it as a musical instrument, but as a devise to learn how to read music. The recorder itself is thrown away as quickly as possible so the kids can choose a “real instrument”, that’s why they don’t bother with the second octave.
I don’t remember where, but there was a recorder instructor who was hired to teach grade school recorder class, and he taught with such enthusiasm that most of the kids wanted to stick with the recorder afterwards, not move on to a band/orchestra instrument. He was promptly fired.
The “grade school recorder” phenomenon has probably turned more kids/parents/teachers off the instrument than on, so I’m not sure if we want to subject the whistle to similar mismanagement in the school system.
Also O.T., I have a Clare whose sound I liked very much when I first got it. I took it apart once, put it back together very carefully, and now that lovely sound is gone. I’ve inspected it every way I can think of, but I can’t detact any physical reason to account for the change in its sound (very frustrating). Needless to say, it sits and I never play it anymore. Does anyone have any ideas what happened?
-Bob
Well, our school just cut its music program, so recorder isn’t taught at all.
But I know that there is a kind of plastic whistle available- the Dixie Fife, I think it’s called. They cost about $4, have six holes, and play in D. I agree that the whistle makes more sense as a musical instrument for beginners, but I know that there are more teaching materials available for the recorder.
Thanks for the information about
Clare whistles at The Whistle Shop.
I’m actually going to have a chance
to visit TWS in November.
About the sharp edges concern,
the least sharp edged inexpensive
metal whistle I’ve found is the
Oak D. The tube is nickle and
the edges of the tube bottom are
pretty thick and blunt. I think
the Oak D is a very good inexpensive
whistle, a bit quieter than Generations,
which parents might welcome.
Dale had some very good
things to say awhile back about
the Oak C, too. Anyone know where
I can get one? TWS, no doubt!
Probably the case for teaching recorder
to children is much stronger than it
appears to some of us whistle fanatics,
however this consideration strikes
me as decisive: the recorder
will ill serve children who wish
to perform in pubs. Best to all…
I think I can answer some of the questions regarding recorder in the classroom.
I am considered a “Recorder Specialist” (dare I say it?) I have a Bachelor of Music degree in Recorder (believe it or not!) Part of my living is made by going into schools to help music teachers set up/enhance existing music programs in elementary schools. (I also play & teach Irish Whistle, Bodhran & Concertina) There are some very good reasons why recorder is chosen as a beginning instrument:
-The Carl Orff method of teaching music to young children is very big here in Canada and this uses recorder. It is an excellent method, and works well in the right situation.
-The recorder is a legitimate “classical” instrument with a vast repertoire of music from Medieval and Renaissance part music, through Baroque Sonatas & Concertos to contemporary music.
- The recorder is fully chromatic, meaning it can play any style of music in any key.
It also has many published arrangements of multipart-music, many designed for beginning players such as school students.
-A consort of recorders of various sizes (soprano, alto, tenor & bass) form the basis of many of these arrangements and some schools provide these larger instruments for students to borrow. - A good soprano recorder is easy to get and costs students less than a Generation tin whistle! Not to mention that they play much better than the cheap whistles.
On the Down Side, I find that unfortunately, many music teachers know little or nothing about recorder, teach it as a pre-band instrument using “quaint” nursery rhyme-types of tunes guaranteed to turn-off students, and can’t even play well themselves.
Due to cutbacks and scheduling, most music teachers see each class of 25-33 students once a week for half an hour - not a good situation in which to teach anything!
Given the reality of today’s school music class situation, I think it would make more sense to teach whistle. It is easier and quicker to learn simple tunes, can teach the basics of music and the kids don’t think of it as “uncool” as they do with recorder.
This brings me back to my original question in this posting…why doesn’t a company like Yamaha make really good cheap whistles as they do recorders and fifes?? Then I would promote & teach whistle in schools!
Now you have me interested, because
you are being practical. (The account
of all the pluses of the recorder is
very good–especially all that lovely
classical music that is unattainable
on the whistle, unless you’re some sort
of obsessed genius.) If a good cheap
whistle for kids is what you need to
teach whistles to kids in Canada, then
please tell me: why not
the Sweetone? As was noted earlier
in this thread it was designed for
children, you probably know that
Michael Copeland designed the whistle
head, many people like them immensely
(e.g. Dale gives them a very good
review). Concerns have been raised
in this thread about rust, and I’ve
read other messages about these whistles
rusting. So they must sometimes rust.
Still I’ve played individual Sweetone whistles for years and never noticed any rust, and I’ve known other people who
played them a lot and never spoke
of rust–so maybe this isn’t so common? And if one should rust after awhile, at 7 bucks or so USA, one can buy another. I’ve seen young children learn to play Sweetones
just fine. I appreciate people
expressing concerns about cheap whistles
(other than the Susato), Generations
should not be inflicted on children,
I think, and do you really think there aren’t good enough whistles for kids to play?
Sorry to press you–maybe there should
be more good whistles for kids, still
I think there may be some workable choices.
Think of all the good you’ll do. Best wishes…
[ This Message was edited by: jim stone on 2001-10-14 18:47 ]
Jim,
It is the inconsistency of the cheap whistles that I have a problem with. Also the clear, coloured plastic that Yamaha is now using is very attractive to kids.(Me too!!)
When teaching with whistles, I have actually had much more success with Generations than Sweetones finding the Sweetones to have tuning problems in the top octave.
When teaching classes, I order 2 dozen Generations at a time out of which 2 or three will be superb, 2 or 3 not great but passable, and the rest good. When Sweetones first came out, many of my students bought them. Most instruments had problems with intonation, and several instruments rusted on the inside and dripped brown “condensation”- yuck!
I’m not saying that I think recorders are better (heaven forbid!!) but I do wish Yamaha would make some cool, clear, coloured plastic whistles for school kids as a viable option to recorders in the classroom.
Happy whistling…
I know what you mean, Sue, about the ease of using mass produced cheap instruments. I’ve been teaching recorder to my class of grade fives for three years now, and considering that I can get tunable Yamaha recorders (consistently in tune, with all of them playable and indestructible) for the equivalent of about $4.80 U.S., the price and value is super.
Here’s where things get a bit complicated for me, because I’ve become a whistle fanatic during the last two years and would dearly love to teach my students whistle (instead of the recorder) this January. Musically, I think I can get by using and adapting basic instructional materials available for whistle. However, I’ve often wondered, as you have, about what whistle to use. Based on what you’ve reported with your use of Generations, I’d have to say that it sounds like the percentage of playable ones sounds surprisingly good compared to other reports I’ve come across. I have some nice whistles myself, but my one Generation (a Bb) has a mouthpiece that is a bit too finicky for my liking and I hesitate to hand a child anything that is likely to get in the way of success.
The nearest facsimile to the mythical “Yamaha whistle” is, in my opinion, the Susato. The price is almost three times that of the recorder, though, so I guess it’ll be Generations for me and my thirty accomplices!!
I would welcome any suggestions from you or others about what one or two books would be best to use as a guide, as I am self-taught and would rather lean on a good book than re-invent the wheel.
Any suggestions, oh wise ones?!
Jef
Jef,
I’ve put together all of my own teaching material over the last many years. However, there is a pretty good book out now by Mizzy McCaskill and Dona Gilliam called Childrens Tin Whistle Method (Mel Bay). http://www.whistleshop.com has it, probably other music stores too. I usually start by teaching by ear, then introduce notation.
I use the pentatonic scale a lot(DEGAB) - great for harmonizing and for Scots & Irish tunes. Rounds are also great learning tools and easy and fun for young students.
Good luck, keep in touch!
Sue
Thanks, Sue.
I’ve just fired off a few related questions to you off the board. As Dale would say, we’ll “take it outside”.
You folks in this community never cease to amaze me… ask for help of almost any kind and it’s there…
Jef
I agree with Jim that Sweetones are probably the best for a child friendly whistle but why on earth do they pair probably the best fipple ever designed for a cheap whistle with such a lousy body? Surely brass or even PVC must be better then steel and why,except to uphold tradition,a conical bore necessatating that horrible ridge at the back…a cylindrical bore would offer more comfort for a child and in my opinion,a better sound.A friend has suggested baroque style recorder due to its more whistlely tone would be nice for my daughter…any comments on this? Thanks in advance,Mike
The rather well known recorder company, Adler Heinrich, has started making a nice wooden whistle, but it does cost around $20 USD. I can’t speak to consistancy, since I only have one. I posted a picture of my purple one a while back, but it here it again for those in the back row 
Peace,
Erik
p.s. Jef and Sue, I’m interested in your whistle teaching discussion. It wouldn’t bother me to see that played out in a thread. I’m teaching a couple of kids myself and have found the following method book a wonderful backbone. It’s “Practical Theory Complete - A Self-Instruction Music Theory Course” by Sandy Feldstein. It’s well organized and extremely helpful.
[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2001-10-15 09:00 ]
I did a search for the Adler-Heinrich Penny Whistle.I found one at Antique Sound Workshop but the current price was $54.00
JSW