I’ve noticed that quite a few of us on here have started learning on the 1 piece Dixon aka the plastic pipe. As we all seem to want to trade up to a proper flute i.e. with a conical bore after a little while, I wonder if we could all share our experiences of the flute and our reasons for wanting to trade up. This isn’t an attempt to rubbish the flute as I think it definately serves a purpose and is exceptional value for money but I really wanted to understand whether the limitations as I see them are the fault of the instrument or a fault in my technique.
Firstly, on the positive side, one thing I have found is that it has quite a strong low D which is relatively easy to produce.
As for weaknesses, I have found the following :-
There are some distinctly weak notes, e.g. C nat and low E. No matter how I try, these notes always sound weak and wheezy compared with their neighbours.
It has a very large gap between the E and D tone hole which I find impossible to cover comfortably without using my pinky for the last hole.
Tuning is good from D to E’ but beyond that i.e. F’ onwards, I find it quite poor - perhaps alternative fingerings are called for.
I just wondered whether these are common faults that all users have found or whether my technique is at fault ?
I don’t have the Dixon pipe, but I do have a Tipple.
I’m guessing based on your descriptions that the Dixon is cylindrical as well.
If so, most of the issues you mentioned are because of that, I believe.
The low E is the weakest note on every flute I’ve played (not many, mind you), but I believe it’s inherent in the design.
The Cnat weakness I think is due to cross-fingering – not that particular flute.
The D-E gap: You gotta live with it. The conical bore allows those finger holes to be put closer together. With a cylinder, it’s the best they can do.
Again, the problem with tuning is a know issue with completely cylindrical flutes.
All this of course, should be taken with the requisite pillar of salt, given my overall lack of experience in the matter (but my Physics is good).
I play i single-piece dixon and I agree with everthing Andrew says except for the problem with the finger holes beeing far apart but that’s due to the way my hands are constructed (long fingers). I must say that this instrument is very good if you just want to see if the flute is something for you. It brings you a lot of flute for almost no money.
I’ve played a dixon 3pc polymer for a couple years. It was good to learn on, but it just is not in tune. you have to overblow so much to keep the higher notes (mainly a and b) from going flat. It was about 270 bucks when I bought it and almost 300 now.
I recently bought a 97 dollar tipple made from speckled-bore pvc and equiped with a tiny wedge that you slide under the embouchre hole. It is such a better flute than the dixon. It really is unbelievable. It sounds like an effin’ wooden pratten flute. The high notes, because of that wedge are even a little sharp! It is completely tunabe and a REAL INSTRUMENT.
I told doug tipple that I wanted a big sound, so I think he may have made it more pratten-esque for me.
Don’t let the fact that the dixon flutes “look” more authentic. they are not good enough to use professionally, it is worth to spend just a little more and get a better flute to get started on. don’t waste your money on a dixon flute just because it’s black and has decorative rings. By the way, the tipple flute is white pvc, but crafted in a way that actually makes it look pretty as it is. kind of “pearly” very good work.
More or less, both simple system-(at least the original ones from 19th century and their copies from this time) and Boehm flutes are designed to play the E with the Eb key opened. This makes the E brighter and more in tune. One could try it on a Boehm flute and hear the difference.
Of course, many of us have no keys at all on our flutes and those who have won’t be able to hit it every time they play the E, it would make ITM-playing impossible.
So maybe we have to live with it, I have no problem whatsoever with the crossfingered C sound either.
Totally true for the Boehm flute. But for simple system flutes I don’t agree: the ancient fingering charts (Nicholson, Tulou, Quantz…) generally show the Eb key closed.
Making the position of the E hole reachable obliges the maker to create a very small hole (hence the weak note). Opening the Eb key makes it a bit too sharp.
Well, the fingering chart (Wilhelm Zimmermann, Frankfurt-Main) that came to me with my ten-key flute (build appr. the end of the 19th century) is clear: the Eb-flat key must be opend to play the E nat. And I find the E to be in tune that way, allthough this instrument is an obscure one.
But, a footnote on this chart: “Die angegebene Nebengriffe sind anzuwenden, wenn der betreffende Hauptgriff etwas zu hoch oder tief sein sollte”.
In other words, control your own tuning with different fingerings. He gives no aternative for E though.
BTW, I guess it would be obvious for Quantz to have a different fingering chart from those from the 19th century Tulou and Nicholson, don’t you agree?
I have been looking to fingering charts on the net and on the websites of Rick Wilson and Terry McGee you can compare a lot of them.
As for the Eb key on E (on non-Boehm flutes)
Quantz (1752) - closed
Monzani (1813) - closed
Lindsay (1828) - open
Dressler (1825-1830) - open
Boosey&Co (1855 ?)- open
Carte (1867) - open
I guess it all depends on the flute, but I think on later flutes ( post 1820 ?) you see a tendency to open the Eb key on E.
Lucas, Matt, this as far as my knowledge goes (sorry if this thread is going a bit off topic but then, who’d care? ) and sorry to those of you who allready know:
Quantz’ flute had only one key: Eb. All the semitones could be done with cross-fingering, the flute wasn’t very loud in these days and there was no need for it to be.
The main (though not only) goal to add more keys later on was to make the flute sound louder because all the orchestral music became louder.
Thus the tapering changed, which made it impossible to make an F or Bb crossfingered (on my German flute - the one mentioned above - I can’t, nor on my R&R copy made by M&E).
So I think Lucas is right: from the early 19th century on it was usance to use the Eb-key to let the E sound right…
But, hey, I have a YouTube video feat. MM. I’ll check what he does, I’ll bet he lets that key in peace.
I absolutely agree… Except one point: the Quantz flute had two keys
I also found Sidney Pratten recommanded opening the Eb key… this fingering, as you said, seems really related to big holed powerful flutes from after 1820.
On my own 1828 RR though, opening the Eb key gives a very sharp E, sounding really bad after the quite flat D.
Yes Cathy, it changes at least two things: the “Bucks” are slightly easier to play (I’m talking about my lazy fingers) and his right-pink key makes an E instead of an Eb like with the D-flute.
Loren, I have known for a long time that you don’t speak our language. Us elfin folk, well, we understand. I simply leave the pipe and my order log in the basement before I go to bed, and the work is completed when I wake up in the morning. So far it is working well.
With regard to having the E hole be small in order in have more comfortably right hand fingering, I think that you might do well to have a little larger hole, even though it requires a bigger stretch with the RH ring finger. It is my opinion that a larger hole for this E note will produce a louder and clearer sounding note than a tiny little hole that I see on some flutes. Tiny holes are next to impossible to half-hole, as well. I like to play a D# now and then with an keyless flute, and a larger hole makes this not easy buy more possible. I once tried to make to make a combination hole (two small holes close together like a recorder) for the E hole. It works for a recorder, but all I could get was a very weak D# and an E that wasn’t much better.
Thus the tapering changed, which made it impossible to make an F or Bb crossfingered
Are you certain it’s the bore taper that’s responsible for not being able to cross finger those notes on later flutes…
With regards volume and venting (opening) the Eb key on period and modern wooden flutes… I don’t even know where I should begin on that subject… Oh, never mind.
Well, I just happen to have it before me now and I quote:
Quantz p.46 Of the Fingering or Application, and the Gamut or Scale of the Flute :
“Therefore an E with correct intonation can only be found in a cole-shed. To this purpose I have added a second key to the flute, so that the beginning flute player will have no trouble unlocking the door.”
You’re right Doug, I should have been more clear, what I meant to say is:
I’ve got nothing against Doug’s flutes, but Lee, I couldn’t possibly disagree more - to say that Doug’s D flutes sound like a wooden Prattens is one of the more farfetched things I’ve read on this message board.
Doug, I accept your point regarding half-holing larger holes. Really, though surely no-one can accurately half-hole a note every time - if we’re forced down this route because of lack of keys why don’t flutes have double holes like the recorder.
) and sorry to those of you who allready know:
