Tips and tricks with playing please

Irish Flute
1

Hi folks, I have a couple of questions if I may

Firstly I do instrument repairs for a living, I can play sax and clarinet fairly fluently and the oboe /bassoon not to bad, however I always struggle with the flute.

I can play a chromatic scale fairly pleasantly “all I really need to be a repairer” but when it comes to actually playing songs I stink.

Im hoping someone can help me out with some tips and tricks. When I play treble clef c5 written, and then down scale, I dont have to many problems but when I play written c5 upwards I have problems. I can play for example a simple tune like snake charmer, but when I play d5 and e flat the first few times during a song they sound good, but if I say, now go back down to c5 and then up to g, when I go back to D5 or e flat I can barely punch out a note, if I rotate the flute a little bit each way I can get them, back but only momentarily. Its like it goes good to start with and then muffles out.

Any tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated

2

Simso,

From what you said, it sounds like an embouchure issue. Perhaps you could find some tips if you used the Search function above with the word embouchure in the flute forum.

Good luck,

Michael

3

I"m extremely new (like this week! :slight_smile: ) to flute playing (though have played clarinet forever it seems) and just from this beginners perspective it seems/feels to me like there is a constant subtle shifting in the embouchure and breath as fits the note/scale. This observation may be completely off, but it’s my “beginners mind” thought on the matter.

KAC

4

No. Kenny, you’re on the money. Embouchure and breath flow have to be constantly adjusted and refocussed. Additionally, reed players tend to have hardened lips that are both stiffened physically and deadened in sensitivity from the vibrations of their reeds, especially sax and clarinet players. (Brass players have similar issues from the lip-reed vibrations they are used to.) Oboists are used to such huge back pressure and need for very powerful face muscles to retain it that flexibility for the flute can be hard to start off, and also to such air economy with the oboe that the lack of resistance from flute is an extra issue for them. Not insuperable problems, but certainly not helpful.

Simso, as suggested, trawl the site, but also, just as one of many possible useful exercises, try slurred octaves - and do 'em in front of a mirror and watch what goes on with your lips. I take it you are playing Boehm flute? Regardless of that, the James Galway tone and intonation instructional videos on YouTube could be helpful.

5

There is a monster of an exercise for centering the embouchure, and I think it would help you.

Play low D and try to get a nice centered tone. Then using the lips, jump the octave to the middle D, then the second octave A, then third octave D, and on up the harmonic series as high as you can go, while still fingering low D. Breathe as necessary.

It’s a great exercise for quickly addressing embouchure issues. Do it several times a day.

I noted you’re an instrument repair guy–have you had a chance to work with Straubinger pads on a flute yet? I’ve been using regular old unbleached fishskin-over-felt pads on my Boehm system flute for years–is there really any advantage to the Straubinger pads over regular pads that have been carefully shimmed and seated?

Thanks, and be welcome here!

–James

6

Thanks for the replys folks, I was pretty sure it was me and my embochure, the fact that sometimes I could play the note and sometimes I couldnt identified a weakness on my part, good point about having reed chops. Never actually gave that a consideration.

As I pointed out I can play chromatic scales but not until I really put it to the test of playing some songs and a few bars that I find my glaring weakness.

Unfortunatley there are some repairers out there that cannot play the instruments they repair and I am 100 percent against this, as the proof of the repair is in the playing. But I also believe that for an instrument to be put through its paces it needs to be played and we are not talking about chromatic scales.

Re - repairs, yes I have carried out repairs and repads using Straubinger pads. Are they good or not, well thats unfotunatley open to a huge debate and minefield. IMO they are not worth it, but that does not mean for a high end player tryting to squeeze out evry litttle improvement out of there playing, that it is not a worth while investment, I think even the physcological advantage of knowing that they are worth more and are regarded slightly better would improve a persons playing alone.

Flute pads are a trade of, if you use a hard pad “example a Straubinger pad falls in this category”, then it is harder for the tech to prepare and shim accordingly, but the sound response is grealty improved, however the trade of is the flute keys will thunk as they close, and it will require regular fine tuning and adjustment. Soft pads, “as most pad suppliers sell”, make a techs life very easy, minimal shimming required, soft pads make very minimal key noises when playing, and require very little after service follow ups, however in comparison to a hard padded flute, the sound is slightly muffled.

IMO the best bang for buck is a medium density pad 2.7mm thick with a thin layer of felt on the cardboard, double bladder skin. This is what most manufacturers fit prior to sending out from the factory, most chinese instruments have the very soft pads with a high level of felt in them. Whicih unfortunatley generates a muffled tone.

Hope that helps

7

Very interesting, Simso!

I’m not qualified to repair, but I’ve done most of my own padding and shimming, along with various adjustments, etc.

However, and thank you, I’ve never heard such insight in regard to pads and all. Now I’ll have some new ideas to consider.

:slight_smile:

8

Okay, I have scrolled through the huge amount of info on embochure on this site, and have come to a few realisations.

The first is I believe I am currently playing with the wrong embochure, when I blow a note its more of a pursed “drawn facial muscles into a circle” rather than a spread lips style embochure. When I play, I start of like theres something on the tip of my tongue and I am spitting it off. and maintaining a circular mouth.

After reading countless articles, I am led to believe I should be playing with a stretched lip form eg cheek muscles pulled back enough to cause dimples in cheeks. Is this correct because I can tell you know Im struggling to even play a D, I can no longer play even the basic chromatic scale. If this is correct then I will pursue it further as I have always struggled with the flute and it really does plaque me. Does anyone play with a pursed lip

Thanks

9

Yes, that’s good info…thanks!

I’ve been doing my own repads since I was in college and took a repair class.

I like to use hard felt pads, they do seem to give better response than the softer ones.

I’ve neither had a chance to try a flute with the Straubinger pads, but have suspected that the primary advantage they give is the psychological boost of playing “the best.” Plus they are typically found on some pretty high-end flutes!

I know that if you take your time with the hard pads and get them shimmed just so, the flute will sing…for about three weeks. :laughing: That’s about how long it takes for the pads to go through their adjustment period and typically you have to reshim and reseat one more time right about two or three weeks after you repad and then you’re good to go.

Some of that is my own fault, though–I like to use only a very shallow seating on the pad, I try to get the key to completely seal with as little finger pressure as possible and a deeper seating makes that harder for me.

Here’s a thought on your tone / embouchure issues:

Try playing in front of a mirror. If you are starting out good and then it quickly gets worse, watch the embouchure in the mirror and see if you can tell what’s moving or changing.

Sometimes a picture really is worth a thousand words!

Good luck with that, and thanks again for the info.

–James

10

This one is really hard to answer without being in the room with you and seeing you play.

When I’m starting people on flute, I usually tell them to put their lips together normally, then press them together VERY slightly, and bring the corners of their mouth down just a bit, then blow until their lips part in the middle.

Later, as the force of their airstream increases, I work on getting them to try to make the “hole” between their lips smaller and more oval shaped instead of wide and flat.

Also, it’s easier to get a tone on just the headjoint without the rest of the flute attached. If you’re having a lot of trouble, you may want to go back to this to help get things back under control a bit.

Best of luck with this, and hang in there! Flute will drive you crazy, but it’s worth it. :smiley:

–James