The search for a new high d

Whistle
1

I was learning to play Maid Behind The Bar earlier today on my Blackbird when I hit the passage in the B part that goes high g to high e then high b to high e and I found that I have a really hard time controlling the Blackbird to go through that bar without squeaking.I love my Blackbird and it’s such a marvelous whistle (the one I play the most) but maybe it’s not very suited to the way I try to play this tune. If I dont blow hard enough for the high b it screeches and if I do blow hard enough I have a hard time reducing my pressure in time for the high e producing another horrible screech.
I tried the tune again on my Gen Bb and got through the B part without any squeaking and that makes me think that maybe the pressure window for the high e is too narrow for me.

For me this seems like a good excuse to look for a new d whistle. Maybe one with similar pressure requirements as my Gen Bb and a few other properties I’ve been longing for foremost of which would be volume. Every now and then I get together with a friend who plays the fiddle and I usually try to play the tunes on my Blackbird but I find myself unable to hear myself playing which is really annoying, it only leads to sloppy execution and lots of mistakes so I always have to switch to my Susato. The Susato is nice and loud but it really is too plastic for me to play, both in build and tone, for me to play when I practice.
So, basically I’m looking for a whistle that’s not as pressure sensitive as the Blackbird, loud enough for me to hear myself playing with others and for others to hear me in sessions/performances and has a somewhat more traditional tone.

Any suggestions? :slight_smile:

2

Hello,
Id recommend a sindt.Sounds what you’re looking for and when I play with a fiddle player here I use a Sindt Eb,you can hear yourself better.John does a high D and will do a separate tube that fits the same head.So if you want value for money,a beautiful sonding whistle and hey its 2 whistles for the price of one,then I recon he’s for you!
But John Sindt does’nt need me to try and sell his whistles for him,wonder why!!!
Cheers,Willy.

3

Whats the D tube like volume like? We play pretty much exclusively in D, and that likely the key we’d use for playing in public.
I’ve been looking at the Sindt before but also at the Reyburn Session D/C set, theres a review at http://tinwhistler.com/ and it seems promising. Anyone here that’s tried it or perhaps both?

4

Hmm, not to me it doesn’t. :really:

It strikes me that you’re falling into the classic trap of wishing for an instrument to correct problems in your own playing. Sure, there’s nothing wrong with wanting different whistles with different playing characteristics. But when you’ve got a whistle (Blackbird) that’s been optimized for an easy-playing high register, I’d look to the details of your technique to figure out why that passage seems difficult.

I guess the phrase in question is measures 3-4 of the B part: |efga beef|gebe geeg|

With the b-to-e transition you have a basic issue of physical acoustics. Namely, that the high b is the next overblown harmonic of the e. So when you play the b xooooo then close down the fingering for the e xxxxxo, the whistle wants to lock into the harmonic mode for the b. You have to reduce your breath pressure instantly to prevent this from happening. Some whistles may be more forgiving than others. But this degree of breath control is something you yourself must absolutely master, regardless of the instrument.

There’s also an issue with the e-b-e transtion. This seems like an ideal candidate for lazy fingering, using xooxxo to finger b. But in this case, the xooxxo acts as a cross fingering on most whistles, and want to kick the b up toward a c’. So you must get those bottom hand fingers cleanly off the whistle for the b, then back down.

As an exercise, do |:ebeb ebeb:|. Very slowly at first, then increasing to tune speed. You should be able to play this pattern indefinitely on any whistle, with no breaks or squeaks.

Another thing … In practice, that high b is very often articulated by either tonguing it or cutting into it. And the b can be cut short before dropping to the e, to aid the transition. So you’ve got these phrasing patterns to try, then mix and match:

|efga {c}be{a}ef|ge{c}be ge{a}eg| Cutting in
|(ef)(ga) (be)(ef)|(ge)(be) (ge)(eg)| Tonguing by 2’s
|(efga .b) eef|(ge.b) e geeg| Cutting b short

As I said, if you want another whistle X, then go for it. I guarantee that you’ll find some other passage that’s a problem on whistle X, and easier to play on the Blackbird or some other. But with good technique, all things are possible. :slight_smile:

As for volume … Yes, the Blackbird is a relatively quiet whistle. But when playing with a fiddle or other instruments, keep in mind that other listeners can hear you better than you can hear yourself. This is one of the psycho-acoustic tricks that leads beginning whistlers to favor overly loud whistles.

I’d say the Sindt D volume is comparable to a Generation or Feadóg, maybe a bit stronger in the 1st register, and ideal for normal session use.

5

I suppose you’re right, it’s not a very good excuse :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ll definitly keep trying to improve my breath control, it’s indeed necessary, and I’ll try what you suggested. In the meanwhile I’d still like to know what kind of whistle would give me the characteristics I mentioned in the original post: volume, traditional tone and the ability to lean into notes (don’t think i mentioned this before).

6

Gee… um… A Generation… A Feadog…

7

Nico, what’s your whistle of choice for the fleadh? Just curious. I know Joey has been playing an old Gen-Feadóg hybrid frankenwhistle that sounds very good.

8

I’m pretty sure I didn’t bother competing on whistle this year. Last year was a Generation in C, just for the hell of it. Typical thing being to go up in tuning rather than down.

But my two favourite whistles for playability, sound, volume, tuning and all that good stuff are my Trusty Feadog (well, TF#3, TF#1 was tragically lost in the “Case of the December Missing Whistle” and TF#2 is ok, but not quite as good) and my Good Ol’ Generation. Both TF#3 and GOG are completely untweaked and unoriginal in anyway, other than ye hot water tuning.

To be fair, the Blackbird is in third place. When compared to Miss Hot Pants CS’ (winner in '08, she didn’t compete this year either) O’Riordan there wasn’t a lot of difference in tone or playability, but both are a little too piercing or shrill for everyday use, to my ear. For a time I would happily switch between Blackbird, TF#3, GOG and sometimes the odd other whistle, but over time I’ve gone back to the TF as the primary whistle.

Miss CS liked TF#1 quite a lot, fwiw. As far as I can tell, based on memory, of course, #1 was identical to #3, so I’m assuming she’d like that too.

Oh, and I’ve played Joey’s whistle. It’s a very good whistle. But we both very much want to steal Asher Perkins’ (watch out for him, multi-instrument, multi-genre genius) Generation. Simply the best whistle I’ve ever played.

(Lest anyone else be reading still, I would like to point out that I’ve played just about every famous whistle out there - Burke, O’Riordan, Humphrey, Sindt, Greenwood, Abell, Susato, Copeland, Overton, Kerry, and probably another couple that I’m forgetting - and I haven’t been convinced that any of them are better than a run of the mill generation or feadog. Only a handful would be close, even. But hey, I’m just me, some noname on an internet forum, and it’s not like I’m backing any of this up with comparison clips or any recordings of my whistling at all really.)

9

I like that. So I guess the hybrid is a … GOG-Dog. :slight_smile:

10

I just tweaked my Gen D and it turned just as good (or even better) than my Dixon Trad.
The darndest thing. :confused:

11

I haven’t done anything to any of my whistles, and I think a lot of them are better than Dixon Trads!

Very strange!

12

Sure, we can carry on. But it’s hard not to miss Peter.

13

This topic certainly clicked on PL’s clear and unstinting opinion …wish I could find a lovely cheap whistle.

14

I don’t know, I spent about an hour going through a bin of Generations (F, Eb, D, C, and Bb) a couple times and I finally ended up buying F and D whistles (I think the first time the F and the second time the D). One of each, of course.

But there were no discernable differences between the ones I got and half a dozen to a dozen others. In addition, while I didn’t buy any at the time, due to lack of funds, the Eb, C and Bb whistles also held true to this. There may have been a couple that weren’t quite as good as the top 12 in each key, but the differences were so minor that it’s hardly worth remarking on.

Basically, I’m saying go to a music store, buy a Generation, and at most run it under hot water to make it tunable, and voila, a good cheap whistle!

15

When you say ‘go through’ do you mean ‘blow through’? I doubt I could do that anywhere over here- even before swine flu hysteria…

I have had three gens - made them all tuneable and even carefully smoothed out some plastic ‘frills’ in the head of one and put some blutack in them all. But they all sounded bad - breaking up on me and producing extra unwanted noises. Now, I am a beginner and this may well be the reason but I can make a variety of other whistles work quite well for me. I just picked up a high D Gen and gave it a toot - awful. Send me your address Nico and I will post it to you and tell me if I have just been unlucky! If I really concentrate and change my breathe technique a great deal from one octave to the other I can almost get it not to break up. It isn’t what I could call pleasant and fun to play though - more of an unwanted challenge…

cheers
Stephen

16

I played all of them. It was at a festival, where the booth operator knew whistle players, I guess. Play any you want, he then takes them and cleans 'em in alcohol.

I don’t know that it’s worth your money to ship something to Canada, but I’ll send you a PM anyway.

I think being a beginner has something to do with it. Good whistles do take some breath control, and that’s part of what makes them interesting. Different tones, feel, and character. A lot of whistles that get praised here I find very boring. Throw any sort of breath at them, and you only get the one tone. I guess that’s what makes a lot of people like them. The other side of that is that I think it’s a trade-off between that ease of playing and versatility or responsiveness. The whistles that give you one tone regardless of what you do don’t usually seem quite as responsive or versatile to me.

I played a Walton whistle for a very long time. Walton I think are some of the easiest whistles (especially cheap ones) to get consistent tone out of, at the expense of versatility. But it helps you get to a level where you can start controlling the whistle better and getting more out of it. I’m not sure I’d have liked a feadog to start, although I don’t know, as I fell in love with the first one I ever played and never would have parted willingly with it!

Back to your whistle, it could be that it’s just bad. The fabrication process isn’t 100% fool proof, and as any good maker will tell you, the tiniest variations will make differences. The benefit of some higher end whistles isn’t that they are necessarily better, but that they’re consistent. Or at least, should be. To be honest, I’ve not yet played any whistle makes that didn’t have some differences from whistle to whistle.

But, you know, at the end of it all, it comes down to having a whistle and just learning to play it. Certainly the differences aren’t as apparent to an audience, once you’ve achieved a level where you can adapt to any whistle, I suppose.

If buying a more expensive whistle makes you want to play more, then by all means, go for it. I’m just happy to point out that I’m happy to play cheap ones that work just as well, for me, anyway!

17

The key tweak that fixed my Gen was adding (gluing) a bit of plastic beneath the blade. I just took little plastic rectangle (5mmx4mmx0.5mm) and glued it underneath the blade. Then i scraped the new part of the blade so it matched the slope of the original blade. That way i reduced the space under the blade, which immensely improved the high octave performance and eliminated all squeaking. It was literally 5 minute job. If you have a lot of Gens lying around you should try to tweak at least one of them. :wink: