Another newbie question about “standard practice”:
What is the “normal” way fluties play the triplet “a” pedals in the B part of Harvest Home? Do you normally roll the triplets? I have been experimenting with a few alternatives - I like the sound of tongued notes (t-k-t), but maybe it is too classical for regular use.
Thanks again,
I roll the As in the B part of Harvest Home. Although, that may or may not be the standard practice.
I think the triple-tonguing thing is fairly common. Several people I know play that rhythm there, as well as myself.
I roll 'em, myself, on flute.
In the hornpipes, well, really in everything in session, I try to blend my sound very tightly with the fiddlers, and rolls at that point match the fiddles best.
–James
It’s a hornpipe, and the fiddlers are more than likely trebling the A’s there, not rolling. At that point, the hornpipe rhythm demands something like “dump-di yadada”, not the “dump-di da-blah-blah” a roll would produce.
You are right, that’s what my daughter does on the fiddle. I guess that was why I was tonguing the notes. I am not up to cranning yet - maybe that would work too?
I’m pretty sure I play it ABA tripletized rather than roll it.
There’s nothing wrong with tonguing a triplet like that if you’re staying in the rhythm, imho. The main railing against tonguing on flute and whistle is that it shouldn’t be done on all the notes (as per classical flautism). You could also try breaking the airstream with your lips… a kind of fish-like ‘puh-puh-puh’, or mix it up a bit with a flick of the tongue in the middle, ‘puh-duh-puh’. In context, you might try simply cutting the first A of the three, then snappily tonguing the last two. It’s a fairly fast set of triplets anyway and is common in hornpipes. Like trebling the open string on the fiddle, you’re after a percussive ‘dadada’. (Let’s hope the tonguing debate doesn’t flare up now!!).
Cranning relates specifically to the ornament on D, and particularly the low D. (To try cranning an A would simply give you a triplet that runs C#-B-A, which isn’t what yer after).
Thanks everyone - as usual, helpful stuff there.
I was just going to say that I’ve noticed that at NC sessions, and
have started doing the same to fit in. I learned it in Baltimore as a
roll that had a lot of extra breath during the cut, and maybe a bit
of a long tap (almost playing a G).
More than any other kind of tune in Irish music, the internal rhythms and pacing of a hornpipe are best understood by watching or playing for good old-style stepdancers. Once you do that, you’d never think of rolling those triplets again! I feel like you want that crisp separation of notes there; it fits with how I hear the dancer’s feet. I do them as glottal-stopped A-B-A triplets but tonguing would be okay.
Brad, are you sure we’re not seeing conflicting definitions of rolls here again? I’ve isolated a small clip (slowed down 25%) of the Coleman Country Ceili Band (the incarnation with Fred Finn, Peter Horan, and Seamus Tansey) playing this passage, and to my ear, fearfaoin has it right – they’re playing a standard swung offbeat roll.
I’ll admit I’ve never gotten to play hornpipes for sean-nos dancers, but I reckon if it’s good enough for the Sligo boys, it’s good enough for me. (Actually, I really should relearn this tune from this recording, I learned my version of the tune right when I was starting out on whistle, and in retrospect it’s pretty appalling.)
Yep, they’re playing a roll there (at least the flute player you hear most clearly is).
It works of course (I played a roll there for many years myself), but a stacatto triplet there sounds better to my ear now. I think it’s from watching and listening to musicians play hornpipes for Patrick O’Dea, the great young sean-nos step dancer; it changed the way I hear hornpipes and allowed me to understand some of the subtleties that hadn’t been apparent before.