now i play with piper grip (better suit me because my big hands, and for crispier b and a rools), but last week i tried to play with normal (rocstro) grip again,and find it equally confortable ( or equally unconfortable, depends of point of view!) compare with piper grip. i find normal grip better for tunes with with g sharp if you havent that key.( and it is better for b flat key of course).my question is:does someone of you changes grips during a sessions or gigs depends maybe of tonality of tune or your mental state?
does someone start to play flute play with one grip, during time changed grip and after a couple months, weeks ,years ( decades?) return to old grip with whom he start to play flute?
marin
generaly we just muddle along until we figure out why we should have done it the other way.
Then we spend 6-8 months reprogramming ourselves.
Yeah, I think many of us go through such changes,
not much in a session, but over time.
I believe that classical grip is faster and more precise,
and probably it helps with keys if/when you get’em.
But if it works why fix it?
I hereby appoint Denny as Official C&F Wisdom Guru.
That’s so true! 
Wisdom, huh? 
just been dealin’ with my own ignorance for a long time…
'least ignorance is curable! 
I’m not so sure about mine – it seems to be chronic – and worse, I swear it’s growing. 
OMG!!! 
You’re not approaching middle age are ya! 
well, to be boring and return to the original topic… I started with a regular grip (recovering Boehm/recorder player), but switched to a combined grip - regular on top, pipers on bottom – when I got my keyed Williams. I found that flattening the fingers on the right hand kept my ring finger and the block from the G# key from arguing, and once I got used to it my hand was more relaxed. I wonder how much of the spacing issue on this flute is related to the fact that Dave Williams was primarily a pipe maker?
Fine…boring…
I play Boehm with the bent finger/finger tip style
Keyless D flute caused me to start straitening the fingers of my right hand for two reasons. I found it easier to half hole and my little finger does not straighten out so it was not reaching the conical keyless flute.
Keyed D flute with flat fingers on the right hand causes me to hit the short F with my ring finger and my little finger can not reach the low C# & C keys.
I use Flat fingers on both hands, but I use the first joint not the second. I usede to use Piper’s but I find this way I can cover the holes better.
I think it depends on the flute/whistle. The Bleazey really makes it easy to use concert fingering, the Cotter pretty much demands piper fingering on both hands due to the slightly longer stretch. I like using piper fingering, but run into problems if I have to pick up the index finger on the tophand…I tend to lose my geographical point of reference on the flute.
Dave
I can’t seem to control the flute from rolling around using the above, Avery. How do you manage to keep it from rollilng and from being out of balance, so to speak? C natural being the most difficult that way.
BillG
Really?? Wow, I’ve got small hands as well, but I’ve never had that problem with the left hand. As a piper though, and assuming you can get around the blocks, you may well be better off playing that way (piper’s grip both hands) anway, since you’ve spent so many years developing the Neuromuscular Response to play with that grip. Having attempted both grips, it does seem clear to me that the NMR required for top hand index and middle fingers is significantly different, and I believe this is why one often sees the really good pip/flute players (McGoldrick, Mayock, etc.) playing piper’s grip on the top hand, despite the fact that it has other drawbacks (but those don’t directly impact the playing of notes, while having to train an additional NMR does.)
All previous razzing aside, glad you’re enjoying your new flute my friend 
I’ve heard nothing but praise for Cotter’s flutes, so in all liklihood, you’ve got yourself an instrument that can take you as far as you’d ever want to go.
Of course, if you do get bored with it, you know who to contact
Loren
flat fingers are less tense than bent ones, and are able to move faster with less fatigue.
Absolutely. I think it’s pretty clear, from a biomechanical perspective, that ornamentation is more efficient with the Piper’s grip. Too bad that same grip causes the need for unusual physical accomodation with regards to the wrist, neck/upper back, and left shoulder that can cause undue stress on those areas physiologically. 
Certainly a trade off which ever grip one chooses to use.
Darn these instruments that require asymetrical and unusual body positioning 
Loren
that would not necssarily be true for all folks. undo stress can occur with classical grip as well (as plenty classical grip fluter’s feel stress in their bodies too). people’s posture, body alignment, and structure play far more important role in body stress than the grip itself. although they are all inter related no doubt. it seems some body types are better suited than others for various positions. i think the demand of piper’s grip usually require more coordination but it can be done by some folks. check out paul mcgratten’s body structure, alignment, and grip as example. it’s not the way he was pictured years ago. you can see some nice adjustments he has made. seems relaxed throughout.
as a sidenote, i was watching a documentary one time which showed how the national team in china picked children for their diving team. they had each kid lift their arms up overhead. if their elbows were not higher than the top of their head then they were automatically eliminated. it was felt that this (perceived) shortcoming would not allow for a smooth entry into the water. scram kid - go over to the table tennis tryouts.
Certainly there are pros and cons to each position, from a variety of perspectives my friend, and that was essentially my point, as poorly worded as it may have been
I agree Rockstro for the left hand absolutely has it’s problems as well, and I have nearly constant left wrist pain and inflammation to show for it, so you’ll get no disagreements from the there! This has caused me, now and then, to consider giving piper LH another try, but every time I try, I end up having more problems after just a few minutes that way, than with Rockstro, so I’ve resigned myself.
Funny you should mention the other stuff as well, because I wrote, and then deleted from my previous post a bit about how I thought some people, particularly if they had longer arms, might find LH Piper grip easier, since having longer arms would change certain biomechanical relationships and induce lower stress on certain parts of the body because of this. Or so it seems to me just sussing out the angles and body mechanics in my head. Could certainly be wrong about it all though.
Loren
yeah you are sure right about the asymmetrical positions we need to play transverse flute. definitely can cause imbalance and strains if left unattended. me, why i’m a member of the twisted neck club. talk about misalignment!
i guess trade-offs between comfortability and efficiency in playing etc. - each person needs to refine and adjust to their specific needs. The worst case being really poor posture coupled with really poor performance, the “mcchud” style of flutleplaying.
I have no training in this area whatsoever, so treat these observations accordingly. Try this experiment. Some time when you are just walking along, pay attention to the position of your fingers. Mine are slightly curved. I suspect that this indicates that this is the natural “resting” position for the fingers.
Try this experiment. Let your fingers fall into their natural position, and then pay attention while you straighten them as if for piper’s grip. Feel the muscles (tendons maybe?) along the top of your fingers and back of your hand contracting? I conclude that straightening your fingers takes energy.
So I am not certain that pipers grip is mechanically more efficient. It could be that while the finger/hand isn’t as relaxed, that most people move their fingers a smaller distance when playing this way, so that is overall better than playing with curved fingers, but I suspect that if attention was paid to economical movement of the curved finger, the “mechanical efficiency” difference might be rather small.
I’d be interested to hear what those with more experience/knowledge think.
Hugh
good observations…by flat fingers i do not necesarily mean rigidly tense held in full extension, but rather lay with that relaxed natural finger posture (as i think you are describing), over the tonehole, and this may naturally add a bit of counterpressure which can naturally straighten out any slight curve in the finger a wee bit (w/out the extension contractability). it can release that “residual flexor contraction” which might seem a natural resting state. but for alot of folks it is stored (unreleased) tension perhaps a result of weak extensors and/or overdeveloped flexors (imbalance between extensors/flexors) which majority of folks have. regardless, i imagine the ideal situation is to be as relaxed as possible so the energy can flow without strain.