Hey All, just saw this!
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1494953003
Keyed Terry McGee flute that started off a hundred something and now the price is rising as I type. 5 Days left to it too!
It’ll likely sell for more than it’s worth, especially considering that it’s less than three years old and already cracked…
Loren
I know the guy who’s selling that flute (the Nashville Irish music community is pretty small), and I have seen the flute. It’s gotten so expensive!!
Jessie
What the heck!?!?! $2500 for a four keyed flute?!?!? And one with a crack on it?!?!?
You could be a new six-keyed flute from Terry or from Mike Grinter for less than that!
That’s it. I’m going to sell all my instruments… who knew instrument resale was such a goldmine?
Chris
P.S. - I thought Terry designed his flutes with some sort of special headjoint/tuning slide so that they were crack-proof.
The more you give the more there is.
[ This Message was edited by: ChrisLaughlin on 2001-12-10 21:08 ]
Don’t forget, Chris, that a keyless Olwell sold on eBay this year for $2,300
My guess is this McGee flute will hit $3,000.
Sick, I know, but there are the nuts who get caught up in the auction frenzy…or they’re totally unaware.
Yeah, I hear you David. People get caught up in the “must have it now” mentality and lose perspective. If I didn’t feel bad about the idea I would definately get on a bunch of flute waiting lists and just sell the flutes for a tidy profit as soon as I got them. I just have a hard time understanding why anyone would pay $2500 for a damaged flute when they could have a brand new four keyed flute from Hammy Hamilton for under $1000 in less than a years time. If they’re so eager to play the flute, why don’t they just go and buy a bamboo Olwell for $80 and work on that for a year while they wait for a blackwood flute. How many people do you know who play so well that they are actually limited by an Olwell bamboo? Very few. As a matter of fact, the better one plays the more fun an Olwell becomes. People ought to spend more time playing and less time buying (and that includes me). Okay, end rant.
Chris
The more you give the more there is.
[ This Message was edited by: ChrisLaughlin on 2001-12-10 22:43 ]
Yeah, I agree with you about the price Chris, it’s just sick what that flute is going to sell for.
I sort of disagree about the keyless thing though: If someone wants to play tunes with accidentals, they’re gonna need a keyed flute…or else they’re going to have to get as good as Brian Finnegan at half holing. All the makers seem to have fairly long waiting lists for keyed flutes so…if you want to play tunes other than strictly Ir trad, and you need those keys, what else is there to do but pay the big bucks?
Still, I think it’s shameful that people sell used flutes for more than the original price and end up (in some cases) profiting more than the craftsmen who make them. I mean these guys are still alive!! Sure, it all comes down what the market will bear but still…$3000. for a used, road weary, cracked headjoint, 4 key McGee? Gimme a break? This guy used the flute for 2 1/2 years and now he’s going to MAKE money on it!!
Well, it’s possible I’m pissed because I just sold my mint condition Healy Ironwood Keyless flute for $300 LESS than they cost new. Hmph.
Loren
[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2001-12-10 23:08 ]
I don’t understand why you guys are getting upset. There is a long wait for a keyed McGee. If someone doesn’t want to wait and wants to pay a premium for the privilege, so what? Why do you care? I wouldn’t do it, but it doesn’t bother me in the least that someone will.
Why the road weary, damaged comments? A THREE year old flute road weary? Guess you wouldn’t want a tired old Rudall or Prattens flute, at over a hundred years old they must be really tired & weary. The headjoint’s repaired guys, and the seller was upfront about it.
BTW, McGee offers an improved slide to reduce the possibility of cracking, and I didn’t see any mention of one being on this flute. Any wooden flute can crack if the moisture levels are allowed to fluctuate beyond what the flute can handle. Who knows exactly why this one cracked?
Naw, I’m not upset. Just baffled.
Chris
Okay I’m quite shocked. Its just slightly more than 12 hours and this this has increased in value by 2500%!
I have to agree with most of you, I was trying to get that Hamilton flute last week and was actually a bit relieved that I was outbid by $10 at $560. I checked Hamilton’s site and saw that a brand new keyless with the current exchange rate goes for $560.
I would rather wait and get one brand new and be able to deal directly with the dealer for the same price than get it now and used. Your also right about the Olwell Bamboo, I have been practicing harder as I wait for my Copley and the second octave has become noticeably easier. I am actually playing tunes and can now play “Boys of the Blue Hill” all the way thru. I’m now going to polish up the “Kesh Jig” and am working on “George White’s Favorite.” Now that I’ve put more commitment into the Bamboo flute I can say I won’t ever part with it (even though I’m playing it backwards). I love the sound and it’s a great flute to take with me everywhere I go. 
[ This Message was edited by: CraigMc on 2001-12-11 00:57 ]
Bruce,
I thought I made it clear in my post: I’m bent because I just took a loss on my mint condition Healy flute Damn Skip and his short waiting list. If only he’d started making people wait a year for his flutes, I would have been able to make a profit just like everyone else! Heh, Heh.
Now Bruce, you would’t be sticking up for this guy partly because you have a few used flutes for sale yourself, would you
Seriously, I just dislike the fact that craftsman like Patrick Olwell and Terry McGee put long hours and much effort into making these instruments, don’t make much money in the process, and then people who don’t contribute and ounce of time or effort to make the instrument, make a profit when they resell them. Sure it’s just the nature of things sometimes, but I don’t have to like it.
Heck, if a used keyless Olwell can sell for what, $600 more than original price, Patrick ought to raise his prices by $500.
Finally, I suppose this irks me most because I used to manage a musical instrument store and I have quite a bit of experience with used instruments - buying, selling, etc. With very few exceptions, used instruments of all sorts (including woodwinds), from makers that are still producing (and likely to be for some time) generally sell for LESS if they are used, not more.
Ahh, never mind, this is a waste of time. I’m getting off the soap box now…
<<Now Bruce, you would’t be sticking up for this guy partly because you have a few used flutes for sale yourself, would you>>
Heh, heh. Busted! Yeah, maybe…partly. I have more than a few instruments for sale. It seemed like you guys were ganging up on the seller a bit. He put it on Ebay with what seem like good intentions. Very clear photos of even the repaired crack. Not his fault if someone wants to give him a fortune for it. His description of the repair (perfectly repaired) was unfortunate. It looked a bit messy, but again, his photo was very clear.
~~~~~~I am on the (loooong) McGee waiting list for a Rudalls Improved with the modern cut, rounded rectangle embouchure. When that arrives it will sorely test my resolve to keep just one flute as I really love the Metzler copy.
~~~~~~~I also just received a brand new! English Concertina made by the Button Box in Amherst, Ma. which is wonderful. I'm selling my Aeola English, which should sell for significantly more than the new one. So, I still have lots of instruments to play, one flute, one concertina, and one set of Weasels.
My flutes and whistles (many apparently sold) are at Fyfer Restorations and my Aeola English concertina should be FS at the Button Box in a few weeks. Thats about all folks. Merry Christmas.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bruceb on 2001-12-11 09:55 ]</font>It’s alright Bruce,
I totally sympathize with you. I wasn’t picking on the guy selling the flute at all. As you said, he was very up-front about what was being sold, much more so than most folks on e-bay. I am just a little baffled about why one would pay so much for a used flute, especially one that has cracked (even if it has been repaired). I think a lot of it comes down to a lack of knowledge about the options. I feel like a lot of the Irish instrument makers have been neglected here in the US, and their prices are generally much lower and wait times much shorter for flutes that are every bit as good as the flutes made in the US or in Australia. I bought a Grinter, and think it is a fantastic flute, but if I knew I could have gotten a six keyed flute from Hammy for the same price in a shorter time I most certainly would have gone that route.
Loren makes a note about people wanting to play music other than Irish music and that being their reason to scramble for flutes on e-bay. Well, I sort of understand that, but if they didn’t need the keyed flute yesterday, why do they so desperately need it today? What I’m saying is that there is more than enough to learn on the unkeyed flute to keep one occupied for a LONG time, much longer than the waiting list for a keyed flute.
Anyways, I feel like I’ve worn out this arguement. It’s not really a big deal at all. People are welcome to buy and sell instruments for whatever price they want.
Bruce, I’m at the same place you are whistle and flute wise. I’m ready to sell allmost all of them off, and just keep my favorites. How to do it in a way that I feel comfortable with? I haven’t yet decided. Back in the day I bought a couple of Copelands, three to be precise, hoping that I’d find one that I liked, but I was disappointed with each of them and ended up selling them on E-bay, each for well over $100 more than I bought them. I can’t quite remember, but I think I made almost $300 profit on one of them. I don’t think that would happen now.
So, maybe one of us should write some sort of study on the economics of the whistle and flute trade. What do you think?
Chris
The economics is simple. Long waiting list on new item = more demand for used item = higher price for used item. It does seem a shame that the makers can’t benefit from this, but there it is. Question: if a flute maker could find a way to keep ahead of the waiting list (this is hypothetical, ok, assume magic or something) so that he/she could sell with no wait while keeping the quality up to par, do you all think they could/should charge more?
This is all very interesting, and in some ways entertaining. Loren probably knows better than most the used-instrument market. It takes a tremendous amount of hard work and time developing contacts, fair pricing and the inventory and reputation. I know myself. It’s taken several years (and many lost evenings to my family!)to develop this into a going concern (and a hobby at that!).
But the pricing on some flutes in the secondary market is totally reasonable. Patrick Olwell and I were discussing this very thing the other day, about why he won’t raise his prices and is astonished his flutes can command so much more on the secondary market. His reputation allows it to happen. Plus the demand for his flutes is great. He doesn’t want to raise prices because he feels he already gets a fair price for his work. But those who covet the flute he makes, and can’t bear to wait, are willing to pay the premium. I know when I first started I had an Olwell for sale that lasted exactly 5 minutes. It sold for what Patrick was selling them for. The last Olwell (still photo on the website) I sold went in exactly 5 minutes, but for a few hundred more than what Patrick makes on them. The demand is still there. Who knows in 5 years.
Now, McGee flutes hadn’t been in this category until recently (and the eBay pricing is definitely NOT what the market will bear on it…far too inflated) because his waiting list is growing. Same with Wilkes flutes. I sold one privately about a month ago to someone who, without any pricing from me, offered 3X what the seller had asked for it without even knowing what that was. Why? To ensure he got it. He’d been on my “I want this particular flute” list for months and when the Wilkes appeared, I flagged him of its availability.
It’s all a matter of degree, I suppose, how far one is willing to go.
Mind you, I got into this strictly to find myself the best flute possible. I’ve had that flute now for several years. But I’ve continued because people want a reliable person from whom to buy flutes from, without worrying about whether what they’re getting is legit or not.
Many of you on this forum know first-hand my work and my reputation and I thank you for supporting it. I can’t see spending X dollars on a McGee from someone I don’t even know and risking so much money on a promise. That’s why I’m here. To back it up.
So, sadly, there are those willing to take the plunge. I suppose I could sell my whole inventory on eBay. But I do this for the care of the art of flute playing, not the profit margin.
Others don’t see it that way.
Hi David,
That was good post. I just want you to know that I really, really appreciate the work you do, whether it be supplying flutes, educating us about flutes, or restoring flutes. You’re a good guy. Flute inflation makes total sense to me, I was just amazed to see such a drastic increase. If I had known that Olwell only sold for a couple hundred more than the original price I might have bought it myself
Peace,
Chris
thanks, Chris
but the word “couple” was relatively speaking of course. It sold for more than that.
By the way, for anyone watching, a beautiful 5-key Healy (see his website!) just came in for sale. Skip’s flutes aren’t ready yet to take on higher prices than his new ones, though. Someday maybe, but not yet.
It does seem crazy to pay beyond the cost of a new instrument. I would liken it to the stock market - the frenzy is self-perpetuating; the higher it goes the more people seem to belive they must have it, and on it goes. I am a beginner on the flute and am have just ordered a Mcgee Rudall Improved. It will take two years to get but that allows me time (and a very good incentive) to practice and improve in time to take on a master instrument.
The world will always have people who want it now and who will therefore pay a premium. They may, however, get a severe bout of post purchase blues, somewhere down the road.
Has anyone talked to Terry McGee about this?
Loren,
I’m so glad you posted. May I quote you, the next time you offer a premium whistle for sale?
Also, I have seen some strange things in other areas on ebay over the last couple of weeks. I suspect there are a lot of folks that aren’t bidding to purchase for themselves but for others. A less than market knowledgable buyer of the McGee may be just thrilled they are not paying 5K for a silver flute, to give to son, daughter, parent or spouse.