thanks for jumping on board, and a very nice post on slip jigs. I don’t think I have a recording of someone playing a slip jig, so all I know (and therefore play) comes out of the session I go to. I’ll have to listen to your clip at home since I can’t do that at work, even on breaks.
One thing for sure, it’s nice to get confirmation that my slow session leader might be playing a bit too fast when we play “up to session speed”…I’ve always thought he probably was, and I’m willing to bet if I go home tonight and slow it down it would sound better since at that speed phrasing and rhythm are hard for me. He also did state he wasn’t a fan of slip jigs. I think I’m going to have to find time to attend the monthly “real” session we have in my area to get a better perspective on rhythm and such. Mike Dugger supposedly is often there, and Turloch Boylan when in town with Mike and their band supposedly drops in from time to time, too.
Well I’ve learned my lesson… and I appoligize for my offenses. BTW, if you want to hear that clip you’ve simply got to cut and paste it in a new browser.
[quote="BMFW
PS - On the sheet music question, I don’t have a great problem with it as a tool to learn tunes (picking up tunes at session speed is mighty hard work) but I do agree that you will learn a tune faster if it is in your head rather than on the page. I firmly believe that if you can sing it you can play it. It’s a great feeling when you try to play a tune that you know, but have never played, and your fingers just go into auto-pilot.[/quote]
I don’t agree with either of these sentiments, Murphy’s or Grahams; reading notes is neither a sin, nor a slow way to learn. In fact, I think it (can) expedite things. BUT, that said, the problem often is that those that learn from notes also are unfamiliar and/or new to ITM, so what we end up hearing is a limited skeleton of a tune, without life or feel and often wrong (tune sources can be another problem), and the rhythms are off as well. These folks would benefit from learning by ear, or -best - by learning by notation while hearing the same tune played by a good player. That said, once the rhythms, tones, ornamentations and fluidity are well-ingrained in the player, a jotted down tune can speed things along quite well.
As for Jayhawk’s session leader, therein is another problem; early on, when I was eager to get out and show my stuff, Jack Coen warned me that “most sessions are the ruination of Irish music.” It took a few years for me to see what he meant by this, but the jist is this; most sessions are the ruination of Irish music.
On the flute-front, my opposition in earlier threads to these flute comparison recordings was illustrated clearly in this instance. While it’s very brave and perfectly all-right for a newbie to post their progress and create feedback (in fact, it’s quite brave and admirable), it is very misleading to other newbies in regard to what it does or does not say about the capabilities of any particular flute make, high-quality or low end, and the comparisons between them implied therein becomes a moot and pointless venture.
Gordon
Hey Murhpystout, no problem at all, and my apologies if I offended in my responses. I really do think this has turned into an interesting post, and in retrospect I probably should have posted originally with more explanation of why I was doing the comparison, etc…
This site is great, but I’m sure had we been talking over a pint things would have gone much smoother. The written word can be flat out dangerous at times.
good points, and I’m beginning to see your point more on the last issue (posting comparison clips)…but I still think they’re fun, and if taken in the right spirit they can be helpful.
As for sessions being harmful to ITM, they may well be, but my playing (hiding behind a door now) really has improved by going to the slow session - much more so than when I was playing at home by myself. Without good local teachers of ITM, you gotta take what you can get, but I think I do need to take advantage of the other local sessions to really help me progress and get a broader view of the tunes I’ve learned so far.
Well, what I said must be taken with a grain, or pound, of salt, and a degree of humor. Playing with others is a necessary thing to do, getting out and hearing others also necessary, so I did not mean to imply (nor did Jack) not to do it. But keep in mind when you do so that there are a lot of bad habits learned in sessions, too, among them taking things too fast and sloppy, rhythms askew, etc., and not every tune learned there is the way it must, or even should, be played.
Oh, hell, just keep playing.. It’ll all work out in the end…
Gordon
I would welcome any submissions by anyone who wants to contribute. It takes balls to put your own playing up on the chopping block, and not everyone has the stomach for it.
My hat is off in respect to both Eric and Aaron. I know the guts this kind of thing takes. It doesn’t get much easier, either.
Gordon said “Oh, hell, just keep playing.. It’ll all work out in the end…”
I’m sure truer words were never spoken.
And, I didn’t take your, or Jack Coen’s, comments as meaning not to play sessions, but I do truly wish I lived somewhere with nightly sessions to go listen to. I get very jealous of folks living in areas with active ITM scenes. However, both you and Jack had a point, and I do think I’d been relying too much on one source for the past 3-4 months.
Aaron & James - nice clips, and much slower than I’m used to (which also sounds much nicer). Before these were posted I was playing it at a slower tempo myself, and the rhythm flowed into place much more naturally.
These clips are a great help to me. Hopefully, some of the more experienced players will provide any critique, but I think you both sound quite good.
It’s interesting to hear the slight differences around the basic structure in each of your versions of the tune as well as compared to what I know…I’m planning to steal from both of you!
Well, I’m not ready to post clips of my playing… I may never be. But, on the subject of sharing beginners experiences, I’ve started a blog about my flute and ITM experiences, as a sort of an experiment. It would be fun if there were other blogs of similar nature, if anyone has the time (I’ll have limited time for mine).
I’m glad to see at least a couple tunes are submitted and posted. James, I like think the rolls add to the tune. And as far as a flute comparison, I like your tone on the Hamilton better than the Seery. Plus I liked the name of the file… Hamseeryfly sounds like a Pokémon creature.
Sboag, I enjoyed your blog. It’s great that your sharing what you learn.
I have to agree with Gordon on folks posting comparison’s of flutes. They are highly subjective to the player and the recording. Their main value is in illustrating how much the player controls the tone of the flute.
I think fellow students sharing tunes and critiquing each other is great. It’s a learning tool that has been put to great use in a lot of contexts. I’ve experienced it in Highland piping. At a week long school I’ve gone to a couple times we did a lot of that, especially in the advanced classes where being objective and critical of our own playing was one of the major ideas behind the curriculum.
I don’t think Jayhawk did it with any malicious intent, but as a few others have pointed out I think this comparison is highly misleading. I say this even despite the prescence of a little disclaimer. Why so? Because when someone says they’re making a comparison there are a few assumptions to be made there. One of them is that its a relatively fair comparison. And that the flute player spent considerable time with both flutes being compared. (ok don’t ask me how long is considered considerable but 3 days Vs 8 months, by a beginner too, is a bit over the top) Flutes are instruments their players have to get used to, and I don’t think there’s much of a point starting to compare one you’ve just gotten a couple of days back with one you’ve been playing for a while. Even more so when your embouchure is beginnerish in nature.
Also about the “learning by ear” thing; there’re also a few assumptions people make when they advise others to “learn by ear”. One assumption is that the learner is listening to someone of considerable caliber. If you were to learn from the playing someone who plays like crap, I don’t think you’d expect to do any better. Just the blind leading the blind.
Jayhawk if the sessions in your area aren’t very good (or as Gordon quoted, “the ruin of irish music”) you might be better off learning CDs of good recordings. Then go to your sessions with the mindset of just enjoying yourself, socialising and having fun, less so of an actual, conscious learning experience. Of course, you’ll indubitably pick up other things like how to play in unison with someone, importance of an even tempo, sesh ettiquette etc in the session unconsciously too, so its all good. But if the leaders aren’t so good, you might not like to treat them as absolute model musicians. Also listen to lots of Irish music recordings by good Irish musicians when you can! Your rhythm should improve with more casual/analytical listening.
Also, kudos to Mr. Murphy for what I felt was an honest, yet constructive post.
What I wish is that one of the really big dogs on the boards, someone like Harry or Conal, would email me their MP3 of the thing. I think there’s yet more we could learn if we could hear a tune we worked out on our own, and then hear someone much further along than any of us play it as well.
It looks like there’s a close consensus on slip jig idiom from the three contributors thus far. Although I’m the only one not showing off with fancy rolls and stuff.
Interesting about Harry’s un-preference for the tune. Maybe he’s heard too many of us learners play it. For me, with Highland pipes, there are some tunes that are good tunes but when they’ve been played to death by beginner level players and bands, they lose their appeal.
I just thought I’d add a comment after attending my session last night. We finished whipping through Christmas Eve at a rather rapid pace, and I asked the leader if that was session speed. His reply: “Nope, that’s dancer speed”. When I asked what exactly dancer speed was, he said it’s the speed the dance troupe he plays for likes reels at. I asked if we could run through the Butterfly at session speed, and although a tad faster than the clips in this thread (not my version obviously ), it definitely had more of the slip jig feel and rhythm - it was a totally new experience.
So I’ve learned something, when your session leader plays most frequently solo for a dance troupe, and a troupe that likes things at a rapid pace, it helps to request session speed.
I wish he’d let me post it, but he doesn’t think his music is up to public consumption yet. That being said…
Jack (Murphystout) sent me a perfectly lovely recording of him playing The Butterfly last night. Jack’s come a long way lately: clear, woody tone, excellent control over the flute, tasteful ornamentation applied with skill. I wish he’d let me post it but I will of course abide by his wishes.
I’ve also now heard the original recording by Tommy Potts, which is actually played about the speed that Eric originally took this tune, and sounds almost nothing like what you think of a slip jig sounding like…so there ya go. You’d think the man would know how to play it, considering he wrote it and all. His playing (on fiddle) is fast, driving, at times almost staccato. If you can find this recording, give it a listen–it was definitely a learning experience for me.
Sorry I didn’t respond to this earlier. If you read this James, you can post it. Since I started this thing I might as well contribute. Thanks for the complement BTW!
I’m sure truer words were never spoken.
), it definitely had more of the slip jig feel and rhythm - it was a totally new experience.