Dear Redwolf,
I cannot access that particular discussion via your link.
This topic is very relevant and helpful to me and my flute making - something I’ve done for 26 years.
I do not understand why you moved it from the flute discussion. Please put it back here where it belongs.
casey Burns
www.caseyburnsflutes.com
worked for me…
I’m not sure what “sid” is for.
This will work also.
Casey,
Really, your thread is alive and well in the “controversial” forum. Responses are being posted.
Feadoggie
It is where it belongs. Discussions of a political nature, even if they have some relation to the instruments under discussion, belong on the political forums. We try very strongly to keep anything political off the main discussion forums. There are people here who hold very strong, and often very different political views…keeping political discussions in their own area prevents flame wars from breaking out, and/or people leaving because they feel their views aren’t welcome. You can say pretty much whatever you want, politically, on the politics/controversy forums, but on the instrument forums and the pub, we need to keep things a little more mellow.
I don’t know why you can’t access it via the link…it’s working for me. Anybody else having trouble getting to that post?
If that link still isn’t working for you, try going here:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewforum.php?f=25
And clicking directly on the topic.
Redwolf
I think you are confusing economics with politics. This is not a political topic, it is an economic one and I am in the business of selling flutes and the flute players on this forum are in the business of buying and selling these as well. It is directly relevant.
I am mostly interested in hearing what the flute playing community has to say about this and not really want to have this discussion diluted by non flute forum members - i.e., whistle players and uilleann pipe players etc. who know little about what goes on inthe flute market. Thus keeping this economic discussion to the flute pages makes the data (and Chiff and Fipple) of better use to the flute community and to this maker and probably others. As to politics, I think encouraging discussion is important now, irregardless of the flaming risk. Supressing it even moderately is how we have gotten into the messes we are in.
As one of the long time flute makers I think I have a claim to throw a little weight around now and then and am frankly doing so now. I am formally requesting that you move this back to the flute discussion.
Casey Burns
I’m with Casey here. I think his intent was pretty clearly the implications of the (free-?)falling dollar on the economics of the flute market. Others did chime in with comments that didn’t mention flutes and could be interpreted as political. But, should the originator of a thread about flutes be punished for the actions of contributors to the thread? I think a reminder to stay on topic would have sufficed.
In some people’s minds, it is impossible to divorce a discussion of the economy, even the “flute-world economy” from the realm of politics, so any negative economic words are interpreted by them as criticism of the government. I think the act of moving the thread can be interpreted as caving to the “political thought police.” I’d encourage the moderators to move the thread back to the Flute Forum with a request to both stay on topic and not be hypersensitive about the occasional economic (or even political) rant.
Personally, due to the sharp decline in the dollar, my next flute will definitely either be purchased from a U.S. maker or used from someone in the U.S. If the dollar were where it was a couple of years ago, I might have considered casting a wider net. There are clearly some great U.S. flute makers, so, although their material costs (and hence their prices) will rise, U.S. flutes will probably be the best deals, and I’m sure I’ll get a great instrument.
Regards,
John
I agree with Casey, too, this is a flute related, economic topic not a political topic.
Flutes are sold here in this forum, flutes are bought on this forum, and I’ve looked at flutes in Europe and thought “no way would I buy overseas these days” yet that has nothing to do with politics or “touchy”/controversial issues.
The dollar’s value is way down, and it effects the flute buying public. For example, my 6 keyed M&E went from being a $785 flute to it’s current value of $1,244. I wouldn’t be able to afford to buy it today and would have looked stateside for a flute.
Eric
Dear Brother Casey,
I am one of those on your current list, and I look forward to the day when I can play one of your Pratten, large holed flutes. I already have one of your “standard” models, with rings and tuning slide, and I thank you for that. Really great flute!
My feelings go out to you, in your having been rail-roaded, Sir.
Not political at all.
And how big a deal is it which forum it’s in, anyway?
I would assert: not very.
Moving threads is always going to be more controversial when the enforcement seems patchy. I mean, I haven’t seen the thread in which a poster declares the graveside of a certain politician as a place he hopes to play soon move anywhere.
Maybe because it wasn’t a US politician? 
FWIW, I agree with Casey’s basic point and that the origin of the thread was most definitley flute related. However, it attracted a lot of purely political comments with no attempts to relate them to the thread, so I was half expecting it to get shifted and I don’t blame Redwolf for so doing, though I also agree with the posters who have suggested that a warning with a decent time lapse to examine subsequent posts might have been preferable for what was certainly a relevant flute-specific thread.
I don’t think it is worth getting hot under the collar over, though. Could we not have an edited version back here with the posts making no mention of the thread topic left in the Political Forum full version? Or we seem to have revived it anyway! A holistic consideration of the topic makes some political element to the discussion inevitable, but perhaps that could/should be limited to observations on this forum and statements of personal positions kept for the other?
The link worked for me first time, BTW.
It’s something of a deal to me, in that I rarely, if ever, venture over to the political/controversial forum. I’m not interested in continuous discussions about how bad our country is, or how fat people are discriminated against. I don’t care if others like to discuss those things, so I just don’t go there. It’s simple.
I am, however, interested in what Casey, and others, think about this particular topic, and wouldn’t have seen it if it weren’t on the Flute Forum.
Thanks
M
I was unable to access the thread with the original link provided by Redwolf as well. It sent me to the login page and from there to this" page cannot be displayed".
I can’t help but agree with Casey here as well. I don’t go to the political forum here either although I hold strong political opinions that are probably very close to the ones Casey holds, along with the majority of the American public. I believe it is very hard to completely dislodge economics from politics although it affects three of the top makers of flutes in the world, namely Pat Olwell, Casey Burns and Peter Noy.
If the only discussions allowed are the differences between Boxwood and Blackwood and what are the differences between Pratten and Rudall flutes then I would have to say this forum will wither and die on it’s own through it’s own impotence.
I believe this discussion is relevent to makers and collectors as well and to be honest is one of the most interesting discussions I have seen here in some time.
Kurt
I agree with Casey and with Whistling Dixie (AKA: M).
Politics is always relevant. And certainly moving the thread provoked more interest and discussion than if it had just been left alone.
But this is something that censors never understand: free speech is always preferable to censorship.
What has been accomplished by moving the thread?
Are we to understand that you’re moving it for our own good?
You are in bad company in this regard, my friendly moderators.
Actually I completely agree with Casey here. For the few political posts amid the economic talk (and repurcussions that are indeed quite topical to the forum), those posts should be edited by the moderators to remove the political part, rather than just shoving the entire post out the door.
In this instance, you tossed out the baby with the bathwater.
I support Redwolf. I think the mods have better things to do than monitor these threads continually to keep ‘pruning’ the political content out.
I think it’s simple, really…if you don’t want your post moved to the political forum, keep the political commentary out of it.
That is because you need to be logged in to get into the Poly/Con forum.
Perhaps sending it to the pub would have been better (no lock out) or deleting the offending posts, but eventually it would have probably been moved anyway. Kind of a no win situation for Redwolf, either she upsets the people sending PMs to her (and the thread was only moved after complaints), upset those that had their posts deleted, or upset people that don’t venture into the other forums.
Wow. First of all: not censorship.
Second of all, this is a message board. It is more accurately described as a luxury than as a right. If it is the goal of the mods to keep political sentiment to the political board, then we need to respect that, and realize that, really, it’s just the internets anyway. Once again, big deal? Nope.