I’m fairly new to reed making, but am having increasing success. A few days ago I made a reed that plays nicely in tune from bottom d up through the second octave of an excellent d chanter.
The problem is, the Bottom D sounds E flat, and everything is in-tune and playing nicely relative to that. It has turned from a D chanter into an E flat chanter!
I’ve tried various remedies (retying to an longer reed tube, inserting a paper roll in the throat. The dimensions of the reed are 5mm staple, 12.5 mm width, 22mm from lips to paddles, with the staple inserted to up to about 30mm from the lips (have moved it both in and out).
Any suggestions as to a) why this would happen, and b) what to do to correct it?
Try inserting the reed further into its seat. Also, try closing the reed down by pressing upon the ‘flats’ of the bridle. Whatever solution you chose, do so in moderation.
Hi Joseph. I’ve tried both those suggestions. The reed is as far into its seat as it will go, and lips are closed to the point of playing well, but closing them any more will take away the first octave. The bridal is near the bottom of the scape.
If I get you drift though, perhaps I should untie and push the blades further down onto the staple to decrease pitch, effectivly shortening the length of the reed and staple as a unit?
If your reed is playing sharp and is 30mm from staple eye to lips, it sounds like you need to do a fair bit more scraping. An E flat pitched reed in a D chanter is a rediculously sharp one.
I would suggest that you scrape some more, trim a little (or insert staple deeper), and withdraw the reed from the seat (inserting it deeper is just compounding the sharpness).
You say that all the notes are tuned nicely against each other so scraping and withdrawing the reed is going to flatten the back D. Therefore, you will need to trim the reed shorter (I would suggest that you not let it get any shorter than 26mm from staple to lips). Shortening the reed is going to sharpen it more, but scraping will bring the pitch down again. The more you trim, the more heavily you can scrape the reed, thereby countering the trimming.
I find that the overall tuning of a reed is dictated by how the back D performs. This means that if the back D is flat, you have two options:
Insert the reed deeper or trim the lips a fraction of a millimeter (sharper reed overall)
Trim the lips drastically by 1 or 2 millimeters and do a fair bit more scraping (can either sharpen it overall due to the shortness of the reed or flatten overall due to the heavier scraping)
Scraping the whole upper portion of the reed and the upper sides are the best areas to flatten a reed and improve playability without adversely affecting back D. I have found it wise to avoid widening the base of the scrape and avoid the lips getting thinner than 0.25mm as doing so will really flatten the back D (plus cause the back D to break under pressure if the lips are thinner).
In closing, some reeds can’t be brought down to concert pitch - the majority of my reeds in my chanter tend to range between 10 and 30 cents sharp (‘cents’ being percentage of a semitone).
[quote “hpinson”]If I get you drift though, perhaps I should untie and push the blades further down onto the staple to decrease pitch, effectivly shortening the length of the reed and staple as a unit?[/quote]
If you are shortening your reed or inserting further in to the chanter, then that will sharpen it even more.
You mention 22mm from lips to paddle. I’m not familiar with ‘paddle’.
Goldy has it, though I wouldn’t stick the staple in further if you have good 8ve tuning.
If you can tell us the make of chanter, that might shed some light.
Importantly, and I can’t stress this enough, watch what you form your slip on. The narrower diam former you use, the more the reed will need to be closed (usually) by the bridle. To achieve happy playability, you may have to end up closing the reed so much that it will radically affect the overall pitch.
With Concert pitch, I have never really been happy with my results on anything formed on a block under 70mm diam,. But maybe that’s just me?
The following things will normally flatten your reed:
bigger reed head
longer staple
bigger staple I.D.
longer reed blades
thinner/more scraped blades
more open reed
(what did I forget? )
also, higher temperatures will sharpen the chanter overall. Many concert pitch chanters tend sharp anyhow, in extreme cases as much as 1/4 tone. It may be useful for us to know more about your chanter - for instance you haven’t mentioned that it’s concert D, so I/we are making that assumption…
What is the opening between the lips of the reed? I have a suspicion you may have an underscraped reed whose lips are too closed. Your scrape may be too short as well. You fail to mention the length of the staple or the overall length of the reed. (I don’t know what you mean by ‘22 mm to paddles’ either.)
Thanks! Inserting the reed further into the reed seat was just not making intuitive sense to me, so I appreciate the clarification. Longer tube generally should mean lower pitch.
Like Goldy says, clipping the reed is going to flatten the back d, not desireable, as everything is nicely in tune with itself.
By paddle I meant, 22mm from the lips to where the blades start to where the taper begins. I think that my scrape may not be long enough. Alan says 26mm from lips to bridal. My whole scape is 20mm and from lips to bridal is about 13mm.
I think overall my scrape is too short, and probably lips need further trimming. I will start a new reed with this in mind, rather than mess this one up further–
but if I ever need to play a tune in E flat…
Soo… for clarification. How long in mm, should the scrape be, in general terms, from lips to bottom of scrape?
– D Chanter by a very talented and well known modern maker (I’d perfer not to say who)
– Opening between lips of reed: 1mm
– Reed length from lips to bottom of taper: 50mm
– Reed width: 12.8 mm
– Scrape Length: 20mm
– Staple OD: 5mm
– Staple length: 50mm
– It was 100 degrees here and humid yesterday as well.
– Another factor is that this was a 3 keyed chanter. I have removed three keys and taped those accidental holes closed.
By paddle I meant, 22mm from the lips to where the blades start to where the taper begins. I think that my scrape may not be long enough. Alan says 26mm from lips to bridal. My whole scape is 20mm and from lips to bridal is about 13mm.
Seems quite short on both counts. Especially with a “high” bridle as you are using, I’d expect a longer scrape. 26mm seems a reasonable place to start (scrape length). Your bridle is very very high, probably a big part of your trouble. Try placing the bridle at the bottom of the scrape, just above the wrap. If you want to stay with a “high” bridle, it should be a good bit closer to the bottom/root of the scrape than the top/lips, IMO.
I think overall my scrape is too short, and probably lips need further trimming.
Terminology note: “trimming” usually means cutting/shortening, I presume you mean “further scraping” or “further thinning”.
Thanks for the tips gentlemen. I am going to print this out and check some of my reeds. I have been meaning to get back to reed making.
I agree with you “hpinson” (? Mr. Pinson) that you should start over. Keep up with the reed making, it sounds like you are getting close. It sure feels good when you make a playable reed.
“I agree with you “hpinson” (? Mr. Pinson) that you should start over. Keep up with the reed making, it sounds like you are getting close. It sure feels good when you make a playable reed.” Douglas.
It certainly does. I’ve been avoiding making any kind of reed for years now, and have learnt to adjust my reeds, not always with success I may add. Then I’ve had to buy a reed. I have collected all the reed making materials needed over the years, but have always put it off, that is until 3 days ago. I woke early and thought I’ve just got to try and make a bass drone reed as I’m so fed up with one I have, which only works intermittantly, and has split and is aided by sellotape. Anyway I put “Heart of the instrument” DVD on and watched it all the way through, then played Geoff Wooffs instructions on how to make a drone reed whilst I started to make one myself. I also remembered bits of what the other makers said regarding drone reeds, for instance Cillian mentioning that he found it a good idea to make the tongue small.
Well must be beginners luck, but I made a bass drone reed using the old one as an example except I made the tongue narrower and it worked!!! A bit stiff at first, but I scraped the tongue a little and moved the bridle and it’s playing perfect, stable, doesn’t cut out, and sounds about 20 times better than my old reed. If only I’d attempted to make a reed earlier, would have saved a lot of grief. So I’ll have a go at the other two drone reeds, then try to make a chanter reed using an old staple. I’ve only made a bass drone reed, not a chanter reed, but what a feeling of accomplishment when you make a reed and it actually works, and works well
Indeed, the scrape was too short. I took a chance with the reed, untied a bit, and lengthened the scape to about 24mm, and re-tied. No other changes except that the bridal sits much lower now at about 22mm from the lips.
The reed is in tune now to D Major, bottom and back d are in tune, and the octave comes easily.
I remember reading in the Eddie Climo reedmaking guide, that you must not make the scrape greater than 20mm, but I have not found this to be the case (my scrape is usually about 24mm).
I’m glad that you have had success and are happy with the end result. You now know that if the reed stuffs up, you should be able to replace it. Now you’ve got a good reed in your chanter, you can try to make a better reed with no pressure to get instant results (like I had recently - see my post about air pressure).
If you are in the early days of reedmaking, I’d suggest that you make a few more reeds that closely resemble your current one to see that you can repeat success, then get into experimentation with the measurements (i.e. different length staples, different staple eye sizes, different head widths, different sanding block sizes). You could find a better reed design for your chanter with some experimentation.
“Hey, congratulations Tom! Yer troubles have just begun…
Welcome to the club; may you have no one but yourself to blame for reed problems from now on!” Bill.
Thanks, yes I know, that’s why I’ve put off attempting to make a reed, for drone or chanter, all these years. I did however collect all the material I heard about, litterature, web articles, e-mails, the NPU DVD etc. It was/is all useful in helping to adjust both chanter & drone reeds. I’m afraid the kitchen and living room has become a reed workshop now that I’ve gone completely over to the dark side.
Thanks a lot now Ive been shamed into givin’ it a shot. I to have been lurking and collecting reedmaking materials and articals. Oh well, wish me luck.
Good luck Leo - I’ve only made one reed, a bass drone reed, and it works, so probably beginner’s luck, but anyway it’s the first step towards total insanity…no, sorry, that should read…towards being somewhat in control of your pipes, and how they sound. It’s just to start and see what happens, go for it
Hi Goldy. Reed number 2 is a success (actually two reeds after the last success). This time I was a lot closer right off, and am narrowing down the variables to (hopefully) where I can produce a consistent reed for this chanter.
OAL is about 89mm (which seems long)
Width is about 12.5 mm
Staple is 54mm inserted about to the tie in point.
Scrape is about 26mm
Bridal is still sitting very high on the scrape, any lower and my back d starts to flatten (so something is still not quite right).
Bridal is copper wire, seven loops, and I wonder if a copper sheet bridal would have any affect?
Bottom d is in concert pitch. Back D is just slightly flat, and I’m going to wait a few days before trying to fix.
The reed is a bit difficult to play, but my understanding is that this is probably a good thing for a new reed, and that it will relax over the next several weeks.
What Alan and Bill said.
I to have been lurking and collecting reedmaking materials and articals. Oh well, wish me luck.