Hey guys,
I would like to record some tin whistle/low whistle for a song I’m working on. I’m planning on renting a mic sometime this summer but I really have no idea what the best thing to get is. I’ve tried using my blue snowball but I have not been able to get a good sound. Any input would be appreciated and recording techniques would also be helpful 
.
Thanks!
Yes, the Blue Snowball did not impress me.
This question does come up a lot. You can search through previous posts and find a lot of suggestions.
I treat whistles just like I do vocals as far as mic selection. I prefer side address, large diaphragm condensers. The key of the whistle suggests which mic I will try first just as it would for vocals. Others might prefer to use a Shure SM58 or 57. But really any good mic will do. You’ll always get good results using what you are familiar recording with.
I prefer to have the mic going into a decent preamp. The output of mics can vary widely so adjustable gain at the input is necessary. The USB Snowball will lack that unless you have software to adjust the gain coming into the USB port. Any decent mixer or recording interface will work. I also use a compressor (hardware or software) in the signal chain to level the dynamic difference between the high and low notes a bit.
Mic placement is important too. I place the mic element about 12-18" out and above the whistle’s window. I generally play a few degrees off axis to the face of the diaphragm too.
Now that’s my general mic placement outline but a lot of other methods will work. It all depends on what sound you are trying to capture. So experimentation is encouraged and should be fun.
Feadoggie
My friends always say to use socks on the microphone.
To eliminate excess air noise of breath and unwanted noise.
Make sure its a new sock and not a used one. 
Thanks for the replies guys .
I’m going to be playing in e minor but I don’t really know how that would influence my choice. I’ll probably be going with one of these or maybe this.
Most of the rentals are actually pretty cheap so I probably will be able to experiment if I need to .
I already have an audio interface (m audio mobilepre) at least and I think it’s good although I don’t really have anything to compare it to. It was pretty cheap (~$100) but it had good reviews for it’s price range.
About the sock thing, I’ve heard that before but I’m kind of worried that it would muffle the sound. I’ll probably make a pop filter at least which should achieve the same thing.
Nah, use two layers of silk stocking material oriented at diagonals to each other.
Socks made of either wool or synthetic blends can build up a static charge and cause havoc - might want to avoid those. Maybe cotton, the fabric of our lives, would work. But yes, a pop filter or even a wind filter causes no harm and can help depending on how you play and where you place your mic. Same for an isolation shield (diy or commercial)
What I was referring to is that you would use one mic for a soprano, perhaps another for an alto and another for a tenor and yet another for a baritone. Mics have frequency contours which can accentuate certain frequencies and suppress others. So you might use one mic for a high D and another for a low D. You want to avoid brittle peaks in the high frequencies for the high D and maybe find a mic with greater low frequency presence for the low D. Does that make sense?
The Shure SM7 is a broadcasting mic. It’s good for voice overs - particularly male voice overs. Not unlike the EV RE-20. It could work but I’d use something else personally.
I have no firsthand experience with Apex mics. I should not want to speak to how they would sound. But a few of those models look like they might share components with other Asian mics I have used. Some of those have been very useful and others … not so much. You might want to look at the mic forum on recording.org where you’ll find lots of info on methods and equipment including reviews of many mics. Just keep in mind you will not find a lot of firsthand whistle recording experience there.
Feadoggie
Ah, of course. That makes a lot more sense XD.
Cool, I’ll check out the site. Thanks again!
What kind of soft compression do you use, what sort of algorhythm? I imagine you squash the loud parts, but not frequency specific, but how much? It seems quite tricky to get acceptable, and so easy to overcook it.
Hans, I have a bunch of software tools. As I said earlier, you get best results from what you are used to using. In other words, experience is a good teacher; make use of what you learn. I used hardware compressors for many years. I generally record with Cakewalk’s Sonar X1 Producer although I have other DAWs. Since Roland took over Cakewalk, Sonar has included a lot of rather good plug-ins. It’s not ProTools but it works very well indeed. I have used a software compressor plug-in from Sonitus for ten years or so. It’s what I am used to using now. I do not use any of their included presets for whistle but it isn’t bad to start with a vocal preset and then tweak things and audition them. Changing settings is totally non-destructive. You can experiment with settings until you are happy and not effect the original recording. All of this assumes that you have recorded the dry whistle part without any clipping or saturation first. If I have a problem with that (other players usually) then I use a hardware compressor in the signal chain as I record the performance.
I recently downloaded a new software compressor as part of a Sonar upgrade. It’s part of their Pro Channel tools and it looks promising but I have not used it enough to review it yet.
I start out assuming that a whistle is going to behave like a strong singing voice. You can see the peaks and the low points easily in a DAW. I’m interested in taking the volume of the higher notes down a bit (how much depends on the tune, the performance and the whistle) and then moving the level of the entire whistle part up if necessary. What I like about the software compressors is that they are visual so you can see what effect you are having. It’s far different from using a compressor like you would with electric guitar (although I’m a big fan of how Roger McGuinn used compression for his 12 string and how Lowell George used it for his slide guitar sound).
There you are! That’s what you have to keep in mind. You don’t want to change the sound at all, just narrow the range between the high and low levels.
Feadoggie
Since the OP’s best mic to try that he owns is a Blue Snowball, I’m betting he doesn’t have a rack full of recording gear and he’s going to be doing everything in the box. As far as mic rental goes, what can be used is going to depend on whether the OP’s gear will provide a mic with phantom power. If he doesn’t, a Shure SM58 would be my recommendation. If he does, he might go with a large condenser. I’ve own a couple of mics from the MXL line and for the money they’re pretty good. Going in either of those two directions, I’d suggest buying instead of renting since they’re inexpensive. But if the OP wants to rent something better, the better AKG and Audio-Technica condensers would be good choices, or a little better than that might be the Mojave Audio MA 200. I’d stay away from small condensers because I think the sound would be too tinny. And assuming an untreated room, I’d stay away from ribbon mics as well. Also, don’t set the recording level too hot. Keep it in the middle of the green because you’re going to need some headroom when you apply dynamics afterwards.
I’ve never recorded whistle, but, again assuming the OP doesn’t have a treated room, my instincts would tell me to mic it a few inches from the whistle window since that’s where the sound is coming from. I’d want my room/mic ratio to favor the whistle. I don’t think a pop filter will be needed since its purpose is to diffuse the “popping” sound we get when singing words that start with P or B. If the sound a few inches from the window is too harsh, I’d start moving it back a bit at a time. If that doesn’t work, try a different room. The room you record in makes a huge difference.
A few suggestions:
No sock, please. Recording at 12 - 18 inches (maybe even further) is the way to go, unless performing live in front of an audience. At that distance, a pop filter is not needed - especially with a whistle.
Levels, room acoustics, and positioning of the mic will have more effect than the mic used. That said, our studios have had excellent results with whistle mics at many different price points. A few LDC mics that come to mind are AT3035 (or 2035), Blue Dragonfly (incredible on low whistle), and the ubiquitous Shure KSM32. I have personally found the Apex mic line to be a bit harsh.
Please do not use an SM7B on a whistle.
I suggest that if you decide on mild compression, that you use it in post production, not while recording.
If possible, have someone operate the equipment while you perform. Doing both at the same time is difficult, and one or both can end up losing the battle…
On stage, our band uses Shure SM58s and SM57s. We have found that the SM58 works well with all whistles. If you need to use an inexpensive dynamic mic, the 58 would be my first choice. An Audix i5 would be my second choice.
Recording levels should never even begin to approach 0 Db.
If you can record in an excellent acoustic space, please go to the trouble to do so. If not, add subtle delayed reverb in post production, without overdoing it.
There has been a lot of good information for you in this thread. I wish you the best.
Byll
The 12-18" recommendation is an interesting one. In my own recording (for fun at home) I thought I should have the mic as close as possible (like 6"). I guess that came from seeing people doing that in concerts. But maybe they have to get close to prevent the mic from picking up other band members?
Does recording at 6" do any harm?
If I record at 12" I have to turn up the gain a little bit more and that can add more noise to the recording (background sounds etc).
You are correct, Sir. On stage, one has to contend with other performers alongside, stage monitors, etc. Closer mic work is the usual answer. However, the signal still needs to be able to breathe. As you say, around 6" from the sound source is optimum, on stage. I am always amused by photos taken of performers in some musical genre, who actually seem to eat the mic all the time. There is a lot going on behind the scenes to allow the performer to look that ‘cool.’ Without heavy compression and probably limiting on the signal, that type of performance is impossible.
I suppose that studio recording at 6" could be done, but I cannot figure out why one would wish to do so. Besides the obvious mouth, breath, and handling noises generated in playing a whistle, - which when mic’d close are very evident - sound pressure levels change at a rate that is the square of the distance between the mic and the sound source. Once one is closer than about 6", any tiny movement toward or away from the mic has a huge effect in volume change, if one is using normal cardioid microphones. And again, i personally feel that on vocals, whistles, flutes, etc., having the signal be able to breathe is of very high importance. A bit of distance between the sound source and the mic guarantees this openness.
We have had some success with stereophonic effects in recording whistles. One stands at least 3 feet from two identical mics. The performer and the mics form an equilateral triangle. One cannot vary one’s position, but if done correctly, the effect is interesting. Assumed in this scenario, is a good sounding room…
Micing a whistle very close in the studio has one other possible negative effect. Whistles can be rather loud in their upper octave. To have a high D whistle less than 6 inches from the mic, one is asking the mic capsule to react to sound pressure levels far in excess of 100 DB in the upper second octave. Subtle distortions in the signal can creep in, that are completely ameliorated, if one simply allows some distance…
Good luck with your recording.
Byll
Thanks for the explanation Byll, next time I record something I’m going to try it 12-16" away and see how that works.
What about the Yamaha MC7 pickup?
Is it really as bad as the reviews?
Probably depends on what you are trying to accomplish with it. That mic is designed for sax and trumpet, primarily. They do work with flutes and low whistles to a degree. I would never consider using one for recording however. But maybe you want the noise.
I have used a similar style Audio Technica ATM-35 for live playing. I also attach an Audio Technica lav around my flute with velcro on occasion for live play. Depends on what you are doing! The problem with flutes and whistles is that you have to place those types of mics close to the embouchure hole or voicing window and they pick up a lot of playing noise. I also have a couple good head worn mics which avoid some of the handling noise issues of the clip-on but they still get all the mouth and breath noise. Really, they are not appropriate for recording.
Listen to what Byll says. He knows what he’s talking about.
And I apologize to the OP, but I should have asked what type of recording project they were up to. I’d be a lot less concerned about mic choices and such if I were doing a celtic punk project.
Feadoggie
That’s the issue anyone is going to have when recording in an untreated room. I don’t disagree with anything Byll said, in fact, I said much of the same in my first post in this thread. We differed on how close to the mic the whistle should be, but I think he may have been giving his number based on his room which I’m guessing is treated.
The problem with untreated rooms is that they’re noisy. And while you don’t want a room to be completely dead, you also don’t want sounds bouncing all over the place and landing on your mic. You rightly point out that as you move further from the mic, you need to increase the recording level and that is going to add more room noise to your track. As you get closer, you can back off the gain and get less room noise.
But Byll makes a good point when he says that close mic’ing is going to introduce another issue with which to contend regarding the volume differences between the 1st and 2nd octaves. Personally, I’d rather have the second problem. The volume differences can be lessened by using compression, either on the way in (as I’d prefer in this situation) or applying it to the track after recording. To deal with the noisy room issue, you’d need an equalizer, you’d have to identify the frequency range of the noise, and reduce those frequencies. IMO, compression is the better option and will yield the better result. I’d rather deal with levels than with noise.
For anyone who’s interested, when I’m talking about “room treatment,” I’m referring to devices meant to stop certain wave frequencies from bouncing around. At one point, I’d spent quite a bit of money on gear for my project studio but nothing on room treatment. I really wasn’t convinced that it was a necessity. I was getting okay results but nothing approaching the quality I was hoping for considering the money I’d invested. At the time, I chalked it up to inexperience and put off treating the room for years. Then when I finally decided to treat the room, I cheaped out and bought a crapload of foam products that barely had any effect. A few years back I finally wised up and bought some big boy room treatment. I bought traps through Realtraps and when I next recorded it was like night and day.
I took these pictures right after I hung the traps. These are bass traps. I face these as I record. A fourth would be in the corner on the left. I hang that one on hooks because I wouldn’t be able to open the door if I hung it permanently. You can see some of the crappy foam I had been using in both pictures. I had loads of it on the walls and in the corners. Embarrassing.
I think they called these diffusers (I’m no expert on room treatment. The folks at Realtraps told me what I needed). I attached them to the ceiling with brackets. I sit or stand under these when I record.
I use an AT2020 and I think it’s very nice. And they’re not expensive. If you don’t need XLR the USB version is even cheaper.
It is interesting to learn about the trade-offs in mic position and how the room’s noise affects the optimal distance. The benefits of the professional treatment seem pretty clear, but for those like me who only do this for fun, is there a compromise? I’ve been saving empty egg cartons for a few months now waiting to get enough to cover the walls.
I just drew a crude diagram of my office where I record. I play in a mezzanine overlooking our living room. I’m wandering what is the optimal recording position to minimize noise?
There is. I think you could probably make do with a portable vocal booth. I’ve seen them by various manufacturers but I’ll link to these two options since I’ve used their product and know it’s quality stuff.
Portable Vocal Booth
Carrel
Egg cartons are going to have minimal effectiveness and that effect isn’t going to result in a smooth frequency graph. In test results that I’ve seen, it’s less effective than foam …and foam isn’t very good. Plus, if you’re saving the cardboard kind, they’re very flammable. You probably don’t want your studio covered with flammable material.
The mezzanine feature is going to make that a bit unpredictable. If I were you, I’d probably do a few test recordings both facing the overlook and facing away. I suspect that you’re going to get noticeable differences in noise and reverb but given the unique shape of the space, I’m not sure which would be better.
You can also look into making yourself what is called an isolation shield. Very similar in concept to the portable vocal booths to which JTC111 pointed. The whole idea is to cut out those pesky reflections in the room. Just keep in mind what has already been said about close miking a whistle. Google is your friend. You’ll find plans as well as videos if you look.
Feadoggie