Question on learning/playing guitar

Whistle
1

I’ve been contimplating learing acoustic guitar for some time, but I don’t know how best to start. I do know that I’d rather learn at home at my leasure. Can anyone recommend some good tutorials? I want something that is frendly and simple enough to get me started, but comprehensive enough so I achieve the skills to build on.
My interest is primarily with Irish music, but I wouldn’t mind a tutorial that leans towards folk.
Guess I’m looking for Bill Oach’s guide to guitars.

Any recommendations for a guitar? I don’t want to break the bank, but do want an guitar I can grow with.

2

I play Yamaha guitars, mainly because they are a great value for the money, and mine have a sound equal to or superior to any Martin I’ve ever heard. There are better sounding guitars, but they are usually made by private luthiers and cost a couple thousand. I love the APX series of Yamaha, it has a smaller body, but a really nice sound, bright enough for fingerpicking, but full enough for strumming and flatpicking. Plus it can be plugged in for amplification.

3

Acoustic Guitar magazine has an online discussion forum. There are various categories of discussion, eg beginner, teaching etc. There are some pretty knowledgable people there.

Lots of people like Seagull guitars as a relatively inexpensive make.

http://www.acousticguitar.com/

Click on “guitar talk”.

Steve

4

Tacoma’s budget line, Olympia, makes a really nice one as does Epiphone (Gibson’s budget line). For tutorials and articles, check out http://www.cyberfret.com.

5

The Acoustic guitar forum is a good place to visit for the info you need although there are many here like me that pick guitar.Seagul guitars offer good value in the states I beleive.Peace, mike :slight_smile:

6

My two cents and 'scuse me if you know all this already:
You are at the mercy of local retailers but you can’t go wrong with the Canadian guitar line either called Seagull or Norman. They have a matte finish, are made of good materials and are set-up well. They are superior to comparably priced (Yamaha has a higher line) Korean-made Yamahas. I have sold and played most kinds of guitars and this Canadian company changed the landscape of affordable guitars. Expect to pay about $400.

I use one professionally in a folk group and people are amazed at the sound.

Yamahas are now available at Costco but I would always buy from a shop that had a set-up person for adjustment. If you’re lucky, you’ll have a local retailer who fine-tunes them before sale. We do in the Bay Area. if you’re visiting here for any reason, I can give you the place to get one.

Decide if you want to use traditional tuning or go with DADGAD. The latter has become standard for Irish music but it is still a matter of personal choice. DADGAD has only been used for about 30 years or so, I think, and even though people are used to it, it has no greater VALIDITY than standard tuning except that people use it more in beloved bands (this could cause a flame war but I have never brought it up in this TINWHISTLE forum). You should know that DADGAD guitars have quickly sort of evolved into their own thing. The players apparently like em with a lighter sound: smaller than the standard American dreadnought size and lighter string thickness. It seems like on the traditional players records (if they even use guitars) the accompaniment style is light and understated. It is really cool sounding but IMHO I don;t think its any more Irish than regular chords. Put more properly, Irish music is melodic. Any harmonic addition is just that, an addition.It could be said that DADGAD, by being lighter and having more drone-like tones, somehow reminds one of the pipes and the chord combinations sound more modal with much less prominent major thirds than a regularly-tuned guitar.

if you go with standard tuning and learn that way, I would suggest tuning the sixth string down to D so you can pick up many of the tunes and use moving bass lines etc.

There are several DADGAD books out but I haven’t viewed them from a perspective of learning from stark beginner. Others on this thread have given good advice and sites to check out.

Good luck!


[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-04-23 18:40 ]

7

Well, I learned the Classical Guitar method, and I find that with that base, I can play pretty much anything I want…

But that’s just me…

Classical musician turned Celtic…

8

as the owner of several martins ( and yahamas…that dont unfortunatly sound nearly as good as my martins) and lowden, a couple of guilds and taks…i would have to second the seagull nomination. I think for an beginner they are a great choice. They have a good product for the cost and a nice sound. Alvarez also makes some decent and resonable priced low end guitars now. It all depends on how much you want to spend. The other option is to check consignment/used guitars at a reputable dealer. Generally in buying used you have to know what to look at, but if it is a music store who you have used before they will want repeat business and will be honest about the instrument. The most important thing is…try them…hold them plunk on them. Get a size and shape that feels good to you. Get a neck that feel good. Push on the strings…fret them…check out the tone…is it what you like. Take a friend who plays guitar and listen to the instrument, or have the sales clerk or a customer …but LISTEN to it.

9

You’ll need a quality guitar, and the best way get bang for the buck is to buy used. If you know anyone who plays guitar have them come along with you. Martins are your best bet, the luthiers at Martin are pure craftsmen. They have many models at many price ranges and all are great. Guild is another fantastic guitar. Yamaha can be hit and miss. I have played some fine Yamahas, but I wouldn’t go there because Martin can meet the price and retain the value. It’s always a good idea to have your guitar set up due to string tension. Keep this in mind. A guitar that isn’t set up may be a diamond in the ruff. Things to look for are tight grain on the spruce top, wider grain at the shoulders is ok as well, but you want that tight grain around the bridge and sound hole. Nock on the top and listen to the acoustic quality, after doing this to a few guitars you’ll hear the difference. If there is alot of meat on the bridge then you have alot to work with as far a string height or action.

About learning guitar, start out with standard tunning, learn basic folk songs that have three chords. Early Dylan or other 60’s folk (even The Beatles) is good for this. These chords will get your fingers used to moving around on the neck. After you are comfortable with them, you can start to mess around with open tunings such as DADGAD. Keep in mind that most open tunings work best with finger picking rather then flat picking (using a pick). The drop D tuning mentioned above is a great place to start. Open tunings can make it easier for the bigginer though. DADGAD, Spanish (Gmaj)DGDGBD, Vestipol (Dmaj) DADF#AD, and many others can be barred. That is, place your finger across all the strings on the same fret and you have a chord. Richie Havens does this with Vestapol with his thumb wraped over the neck. Joni Michell uses a zillion different tunnings and bars the neck. This works best for strumming with the pick.

It’s a big can of worms to open up the guitar case. A tad bit larger then the whistle I have to say, but once you find your style and where you want to go with it, it is just as if not more rewarding.

Myself I prefer Lute tuning, which is the same as standard but the G is droped down to F#. I mostly write in this tuning and a bit in spanish.

Writting songs is where it’s at for me so the guitar is essential.

Oh yeah don’t forget to buy a Capo. You’ll want to have one of those! :slight_smile:

10

A friend of mine just bought his son a first guitar and he went with the Seagull. I’ve heard lots of positive things about them but haven’t had a chance to try it yet.

It’s important to go and try as many guitars as you can. Even without much experience, you will get an idea of what sound you like. When I was looking for my first really good guitar, one of the first few that I tried was the one for me - a Koa wood Takimine. When I actually dreamed about this one, I knew it was the right choice. It’s pretty quiet, but has a very clear, bright sound that I love. It’s pretty, too - which counts with me. It’s a lower mid-range instrument in terms of price.

My friend who bought the Seagull loves his Yamaha guitar. He used to be very sensitive about it not being a Martin or some such, but says the sound has improved so much with time and playing, he wouldn’t trade it now.

11

Blackbird, if you have a Koa Takamine it is most likely quite valuable. If it’s solid Koa then it’s extremely valuable. Yamaha used to make a replica of a Martin D28. It was a Veneer rosewood guitar. Martin tried to sue them. It’s a great guitar but age tells all. An old solid wood Martin sounds like a music box. If you don’t know anyone who has one, listen to Niel Youngs acoustics and you’ll hear it. Hold on to that Takamine!!

I wanted to add that not playing your guitar can actually damage it. The vibrations open up the pores in the wood and cuase it to dry out more. This opens up the sound. I have an awsome martin that has been on loan for a few years just so it will get played. A big part of this is a drying proccess that the wood goes through. I wonder if it’s the same with whistles, you have to swab em though eh?

[ This Message was edited by: jackorion on 2002-04-23 22:59 ]

12

The “improving” sound, mentioned is probably due to the solid wood top. Look for one with at least a solid wood top. Avoid plywood. Laminates on side and back on a cheaper model may be okay at sound fine. A good guitar with a solid top will improve with age and playing as the wood seasons.

[ This Message was edited by: dd on 2002-04-23 23:36 ]

13

Jackorion, the guitar I have is solid Koa, but quite new, and not so valuable. I was told that it was the first all solid wood guitar that Takamine made, but that could have been sales hype for all I know. It was featured in Acoustic guitar magazine’s great guitars under $1200 shortly after I bought it. That was about three years ago. But I can imagine it being valuable some day, as it is a beauty. The more I play it, the more I like it. I was never compelled to play every day until I got this guitar.

14

[quote]
On 2002-04-23 22:51, jackorion wrote:
An old solid wood Martin sounds like a music box. If you don’t know anyone who has one, listen to Niel Youngs acoustics and you’ll hear it. jackorion on 2002-04-23

Gee and I guess thats why old Martins are SO collectible. I guess Yamaha decided they wanted to COPY martin…because they sounded like a MUSIC box. WHAT old Martin have YOU been playing. TELL IT TO CLAPTON!!!-he seems to like them.

[ This Message was edited by: dd on 2002-04-23 23:44 ]

15

On 2002-04-23 22:30, jackorion wrote:
You’ll need a quality guitar, and the best way get bang for the buck is to buy used. If you know anyone who plays guitar have them come along with you. Martins are your best bet, the luthiers at Martin are pure craftsmen. They have many models at many price ranges and all are great. Guild is another fantastic guitar. Yamaha can be hit and miss. I have played some fine Yamahas, but I wouldn’t go there because Martin can meet the price and retain the value. It’s always a good idea to have your guitar set up due to string tension. Keep this in mind. A guitar that isn’t set up may be a diamond in the ruff. …

Mamakash,
A Luthier is a someone trained to hand make an acoustic guitar and to fix them. Check around with you friends who have had their guitars worked on. Then go visit the man (or woman) before you buy a guitar. His help will be invaluable and he may have a lead on a used guitar that will meet your needs. He will be able to take a look at your hands and give you an idea what to look for. Also when you first buy a guitar have him (or her) set it up for you. He will adjust the guitar to make it more playable and in tune. If you decide to get a higher quality used guitar as you first guitar, see if the seller will let you you take it to the luthier. The luthier will be able to quickly evaluate any potential problems and avoid them (such as warping of the neck). This is kind of like having your mechanic check out a used car before you buy it.

I’d also highly recommend shopping around for a used guitar. A lot of folks buy expensive, well made guitars that they play for 3 months with dreams of being Eric Clapton. When they find that learning the guitar, takes more time and practice, the abandon it and move to something else. So, find someone that can help you find a good guitar, and look for a used one. If you are planning on taking lessons, you might want to get the instructor to help you select a good used guitar.

If you live in the Baltimore-DC area, drop me an e-mail and I’d be glad to help.

Hope this helps you in selecting an instrument that will be another path to …

16

As far as guitars, you really need to decide how much you can afford to spend before deciding on a maker. Martin is making some very affordable (well under $1000) guitars that are very high quality. The DM model, I believe, is the least expensive model with a solid spruce top.

As far as learning books, I’d suggest the Acoustic Guitar Primer by Bert Casey.(http://www.cvls.com/guitar.html) The book comes with a CD and there’s a video version also available.

…always after me Lucky Charms!



[ This Message was edited by: Bartleby on 2002-04-24 11:10 ]

17

OK-- now we are REALLY in my area of expertise: guitars!

I agree wholeheartedly with the endorsement of the Canadian made Seagul. They make a great guitar with solid wood top which makes a big difference in sound. They are also easy to play and well made. The Martin DM is good too (will be slightly more than the Seagul), and the Martin 15 series is ALL solid wood (in this case Mahogany) and is a great deal. You may also want to look at Guild (now owned by Fender and still made in the US of A) and the lower end Taylors (which are also all solid wood and a great deal). I personally am not a fan of Gibsons, but others like them. If I were you, I would try for a North American made guitar if possible, and steer away from Korean and Chinese made instruments. The North American guitars will hold their value should you decide you ever want to sell them, and are generally of better quality. Of course, Yamahas, Takemines and Alvarez’s are all fine too, and may be less expensive, but I would choose Seagul or a Martin any day, all things being equal.

(OK-- whomever said that their Yamaha sounds as good as any Martin has just not played enough nice Martins, especially the newer “vintage” models (like the D-18V, HD-28V, D-18 GE, etc.). These things are amazing!)

OK-- back on topic.

Make sure any new guitar you buy is set up properly. If the action is too high it will be painful to play and you won’t want to play-- thereby negating the purpose of getting a guitar: i.e. to play it! If the action is too low, it will be real easy to play but will buzz which is annoying and will make you not want to play (see above). I would much rather pay a few bucks more at a nice small shop that knows what they are doing and will set the guitar up properly than buy from a Guitar Center or Mars where they may just pull the guitar out of the shipping box and hang it on a wall, without altering the action or anything. Set-up is crucial, and even a small difference makes a world of difference in playability!

If you go used, you can get alot more guitar for your money. But make sure you know what to look for. The most common problem you will find in a used guitar is action that is too high. Sometimes the saddle (the thing the strings rest on in the bridge) can be lowered to compensate, but frequently, there will not be enough saddle left to fix the problem and the guitar will need a neck reset. This is a fairly common procedure (nearly all guitars will need one sooner or later-- without getting into boring detail, the string tension will slowly pull things out of whack and will eventually need to be straightened out-- its very normal and natural and nothing to be concerned about) but it will cost between $200-$300 usually, depending on the type of guitar. While it is not a bad deal to buy a nice 60’s Martin D-28 used and then have the neck reset, on a low priced guitar, this may eat up any savings you may have gained by buying new and, for some low-priced guitars, may not even be possible due to the way the neck is attached. Plus, if you buy a new Martin, the guitar comes with a life-time warranty, which includes any future neck resets. This is a good deal, and Martin never quibbles about their warranty. It is the best warranty in the world for any product (and I am not exaggerating).

OK-- lets assume the action is OK. Then, look at the frets to make sure they are not too worn. Usually the first 3 to 5 will be were the most wear is. Play some chords in first position and check for string buzz..

Frets OK? then sight down the neck (hold the headstok up to your chin and look along the length of the fretboard). If the neck looks warped or twisted, run away! Neck look for cracks in the body-- especially the top. Small cracks are generally not too troubling and can be easily repaired. Big ones or ones in the wrong places can mean trouble. Ckeck that the tuners work, and that the bridge is not cracked or lifting off the top .

(sidebar No. 2-- grain iun the top are ususally meaningless. Narrow or wide, there is no recognized standard. Some people may think narroew grain looks better, but a wide grain may sound better and visa versa. I am also dubious of how much you can really tell by wacking the top with your knuckles other than to perhaps detect a loose brace.)

OK-- final step: if all looks structurally sound, play the thing. If it doesn’t sound good, why bother?

Used guitars are a bit more work and may carry a bit more risk, but they can really be worth it. Again, go to a place with a good rep, because some of the “bigger” stores (who will go unnamed) may try to sell you a lemon.

Just as an example, I have owned over the years over twenty guitars, all of which, except for four, were bought used! I’ve never regretted buying used and have always made my money back when I sold them! (I have the guitar equivalent of WhOA-- called Guitar Acquisition Syndrome or “GAS” for short.

Good luck!

Tres

18

Sorry-- my treatise on grain width in the top got a bit garbled.

Let me try again.

There is no standard for grain width. It is mostly a cosmetic thing. I personally like wide grain-- the wider the better. Many people think narrow grain looks better. But as far as strength or sound, it is not possible to say one is better. So what i am saying is, if the guitar sounds good to you, don’t walk away because someone said it was supposed to have a certain number of grain lines per inch.

Tres

19

Best bang for my bucks on a git-fiddle was a Larivee parlor guitar, mine’s maple, and wonderful. I started with a couple of chords, the Folk Singer’s Guitar Guide, and Joan Baez’s first album. However, I also played lots of scales, practiced barre chords and never went beyond the fifth fret! The bad thing was that dang finger picking pattern, I got stuck in it for a while, but a few bass runs and pull off or two, well, I did OKish, even thought I felt like a fraud! Now I’m starting again, I’m going back to basics! I’ve had Guilds and Martins, and they’re too damn expensive now! I even had a Pre-War 00-42 for a while, nothing beats a Larivee, IMHO!

20

Hi mamakash

My suggestion would be to find a smaller guitar shop where they actually do repairs and setups in-house. You don’t want to be a sold a guitar, you want someone who will listen to what your needs and plans are so they can suggest a few guitars that would be suitable for you to select from. Forget brand names… they know what’s well made and what’s not. A phenomenal number of guitar brands are made by Samick in Korea and Indonesia, so the name on the headstock doesn’t mean a whole lot. Before they let you take it out the door they’ll do a standard setup for you. As your playing progresses and you find “your style” they’ll be able to adjust the setup to suit (string gauge, action height, neck relief, etc.).

I started going to our local guitar shop when I was 17, which was back in the mid 70’s! The owner has passed the place on to his son, but he still spends time out the back working and chatting with we regulars over a cup of coffee. The vast majority of their clients started off as beginners like me, and we’ve come to see the place as “our” guitar shop. They don’t do lessons, although they do have a list of preferred teachers, but every time I’ve needed help with my playing or understanding of guitar they’ve been able to spend some time helping me.

I’m sure there’s a shop like this somewhere close to you. Find them, support them, and cherish them!