Price, Skill and Sound

Whistle
1

I bought a Clarke Sweetone maybe 12 years ago and started playing it just recently. As you may expect there are some shrieking sounds, and some are even from the whistle! Seriously - I know I am playing a cheap instrument. I know I am a complete beginner (though I played the recorder for two years, many moons ago.)

What is the trade off of practice eventually making a cheap whistle sound better, versus just ponying up the money for a better whistle. Would a $20 or $30 whistle sound better right off? Would they still sound annoying for several months as I break in? Is the $20-$30 price point no real improvement (i.e. until you get to $80 or $150, or whatever the sound doesn’t change much?)

I’m sure there is controversy here, but I know nothing - so pour on your opinions.

Thanks!

2

Many great players play cheap whistles (though possibly not Sweetones) and some only cheap whistles. And, while some mid-priced and expensive whistles are superb, many offer little or no real improvement and even the best whistle in the world (whether it’s cheap, mid-priced or crazy expensive) won’t turn a beginner into an expert. So at this stage I’d say either stick with your Sweetone and learn to play it or get another (probably better) cheap whistle and learn to play that. Anything else is a waste and a red herring.

3

I don’t know all the cheap whistles, but I found the Sweettone to be really harsh in the upper end, and the voice overall to be a bit obnoxious. Pretty much anything would be better, even at the same price.

I never found mine to have any shrieking sounds. Have a good player try yours to make sure it is adequate.

4

“Harsh” is more fair than “shriek”, I was having fun with a double meaning.

What cheap whistles do people like?

5

The cheapest I like is Dixon Trad. I can tolerate Feadog. Havent tried many other cheapies.

6

Personally, I tried twice to start playing whistle on a cheapie, only to quickly give up in frustration. On my third try I shelled out $60 for a Glenn Schultz Water Weasel, and took to it like a duck takes to water.

I think my advice (if you can afford it) would be to try a pair of contrasting $50 whistles, something like a Freeman Blackbird and a Susato. Find something in that price range you like and stick with it for a few years. IMO, for a beginner there is very limited added value for going more expensive than that for a high D.

For instance, I adore my Blackbird D and play it very regularly. I have a more expensive instrument which plays very much like it, the Killarney. It’s got a lovely interesting tone, and I’m really glad I have one, but it’s actually slightly harder to play than the Blackbird IMO, and I’ll usually choose to play the cheaper whistle. On the flip side, we’ve a number of cheapie whistles around the house, and most of them I can make sound okay, I think, but I’d NEVER choose to play one over the Blackbird if I had both whistles handy.

7

Here’s the thing with cheap, $10-$15 whistles: the vast majority of them do not play in tune out of the box. I first attempted learning tin whistle about 12 years ago. I bought a cheap Walton’s and really struggled with it. No matter how hard I tried, I just couldn’t get those notes to sound right, and I figured “I guess I’m not meant to be a whistle player” and just gave up on it. Then, around 3 years ago, I saw an article in Irish American News (a newspaper published by the Irish American Heritage Center here in Chicago) about a guy named Jerry Freeman. In the article, Jerry talked about how the vast majority of cheap whistles are poorly tuned, and how he tweaks whistles to make them play in tune throughout the whistle’s range. I decided after reading that article that I would give the whistle another shot and ordered a Freeman Bluebird. It was a world of difference, to say the least. I have been playing ever since then.

Here’s the deal: the most important thing is to get a whistle that PLAYS IN TUNE! You always get these people saying “A more expensive whistle won’t improve your technique!” Well, no s**t, Sherlock! Technique comes with practice, but if you don’t have an instrument that is properly tuned, you have a much bigger struggle ahead of you, and THAT is the point I try to make.

I also find it ridiculous that so many people are so standoffish about spending an extra $25 on a whistle, as though it’s going to make or break them. I play saxophone as well, and a student model saxophone can run anywhere from $600-$1500. Vintage professional models can easily exceed $10,000. So people freaking out about spending $30-$45 on a whistle just seems crazy to me.

Seriously, get yourself a Freeman Blackbird and you will know that whatever is wrong is personal adjustments that you need to make and not an issue of playing a poorly tuned instrument. Jerry also has a satisfaction guarantee, so if you don’t like the whistle, you can either return it for another one, or get a full refund. Jerry Freeman is highly respected in the whistle community, and for good reason. He puts out excellent quality whistles for a very affordable price, which is why I always recommend them to beginners.

If you later want to upgrade, the Killarney is probably the best bang for the buck. They run around $70-$80, and can compete with Burke and Sindt whistles, but at a third of the price. Burkes, Sindts, and many other high quality whistles are all great, but for your current situation, start with a Freeman Blackbird and when you really start to improve your playing, then start checking out the higher end whistles if you want to go that route.

Edit: I also feel the need to add that the fact that many good players play “cheap” whistles is a very deceiving statement. First of all, many of those people are playing pre-1980 Generations, which is before they replaced their tooling, which has resulted in their modern day whistles being nowhere near as good as the old ones. Secondly, those players probably tried out lots and lots of different cheap whistles before they found “the one”. The notion that they took the first cheap whistle they came across and were satisfied with it is deceiving.

8

When I started the whistle, there were only the Generations readily available. I was told to go through a batch to find the good one. I hadn’t a clue, and didn’t have access to any quantity of whistles to sort through. . .so no joy in regard to getting one in tune or even manageable. I played with a man who had a Copeland flute and swore by Michael Copeland as a maker. So I found he made whistle, and bought one. . .a long time ago, 'way before serial numbers.
It played easily and in tune, and was a jewel. It is however a deadly serious instrument and can cut through even the most raucous session. Jerry Freeman came on the scene and with his genius could tweak nearly anything into a true musical instrument. I now have a selection of Jerry’s work and play his instruments in preference to my Copeland for the small session I play with normally. As a previous post says, get yourself one of Jerry’s jewels.

Bob

9

I second or fifth the suggestion to get a Freeman tweaked. They play cleanly and in tune which (as mentioned) is a most important thing for a beginner. I suffered immensely, and my session mates suffered even worse, from an out-of-tune whistle to the point where I quit for a large number of years.

The only criticism I have of the Freeman tweaked whistle I have, is that it is too clean. I’d rather have a bit of chiff and rawness.

I’m a very strong fan of the Killarney for a number of fingering reasons, but for this discussion it is notable that the second register and even the high C and High B of the third register are completely tolerable. And, to my taste, the Killarney retains just a bit of chiff.

10

Well, I’m going to counter by saying I sold my old Generations and rarely play my Freemans, which I think OK but not the universal panacea they’re so often presented as here. To which I can add that, in my one case of direct comparison (Freeman Gen Bb vs. new stock Gen Bb bought simultaneously for that purpose), I’ve found the Freeman to be an improvement on the stock instrument in some ways but prefer the stock in others.

While it seems clear that the Sweetone (which I’ve never played) is not highly regarded, there are other options and it’s a myth that cheap whistles are somehow generically unplayable without modification.

11

The only way you’ll ever sound better is to buy a custom made exotic hardwood whistle :smiley: .

Just kidding. If you just started playing that Sweetone recently you may well find that it starts to sound better after you get better breath control. Give it a while

The Freeman tweaked whistles get great reviews all around, and one of those moderately priced whistles would be well worth the money. You’d have the assurance that the whistle had been thoroughly gone over and tweaked to play optimally. The discouraging part of that for a beginner is knowing that any bad tone from the whistle is due to your playing, not the whistle.

12

Also, note that anyone who started whistling before 1990 had very little choice but to learn to whistle on a cheapie!

On the one hand, I certainly wouldn’t say it was panacea – I don’t know that it would have suited me at all to start with a Blackbird, as there’s a drastic difference between the sort of breath control needed for a bassoon (my first wind instrument) and a Blackbird, and I might have spent my early days hideously overblowing it to poor effect. That’s a big part of why I suggested trying more than one style of mid-range instruments – different people are going to like different sorts of whistles. (Lots of people on this board swear by whistles that I would be more likely to swear at!)

On the flip side, I’ve got 6+ expensive (say $60+) high D whistles around the house. If I made a list ordered by how well I like them, the Blackbird wouldn’t be at the top, but it would definitely be in the upper half. It is my favorite high D being actively made, and it’s got a really appealing price / performance combo. So much so that I recently ordered a second just to have another one around, because I love playing mine.

13

I very often recommend Freemans to beginners. They are inexpensive and in tune and generally easy to get a decent sound from. Someone with limited experience can rest assured that any issues are with the player/playing and not with the instrument.

I wouldn’t necessarily recommend Freemans as a universal panacea for a more advanced player. By the time someone becomes “advanced” or even “intermediate,” he/she should have a pretty good sense of the sound they’d like to get from a whistle. In that case, the Freeman may not be at all what is best. Whether that means a more expensive whistle or a carefully selected cheapie or just having the skill to make a bad whistle sound good is up to the player.

But to reiterate, to my mind a Freeman (or a whistle similarly tweaked or examined by a knowledgeable player) resolves the “is it me or the whistle” that a beginner might have.

Them’s my thoughts.

Best wishes.

Steve

14

This is exactly the point I was getting across. The OP is a beginner, which is why I highly recommend the Freeman Blackbird for them. It is better to have a properly tuned whistle and know that any issues are ones that need to be fixed with adjustments by the player. The Blackbird is cheap on the grand scale of whistle prices, and only looks expensive because people are comparing it to the cheapest whistles out there. Compared to the price of a Burke or a Chieftain, a Freeman Blackbird is a drop in the bucket.

I don’t recommend that beginners start with high end whistles like Burkes and Sindts. I recommend they start with a good quality whistle that is guaranteed to play in tune and can be had for a very reasonable price.

15

The only inexpensive whistle I ever found great out of the box without any tweaking or modifications are Oaks. It was my next whistle before I got a Sindt and I still play my D as my car whistle. Some would disagree with me but I’ve bought 2 and both have been great.

Next step would be to buy Tony Dixons, or tweaked Jerry Freeman’s or a tweaked Cillian O’Briains. For $30-$60 range you can’t go wrong with these.

Cheers,

Melany

16

There’s an old tried-and-true custom of beginners having their instruments picked out for them by experienced players.

The reason is because otherwise the beginner is in your situation- no way of knowing what ill sounds are due to the inexperience of the player, and which are due to the instrument.

That’s the advantage of starting out with a Freeman whistle- you know for a fact that the voicing is exactly how Jerry wants a whistle to be voiced. He takes the randomness out of it.

With whistles, due to their fixed tone-production mechanism, no amount of practice is going to change a whistle’s built-in characteristics.

Each note, when blown into tune, has a certain volume and timbre the player can’t change.

What does change is intonation- a player with a good ear can blow a whistle into tune even if it was built with a faulty scale.

In my 40-odd year experience, I’ve not seen a positive correlation between how good a whistle plays with how much it costs.

There seems to be a general tendency of expensive fancy wood whistles not playing to my liking.

My favourite high whistles are my vintage Generations and Feadogs which all cost under $10 each. I’ve not played their equal at any price.

But then again I’m a product of my generation (no pun intended) when the only D whistles available were Generations and everybody played them, from the star players to the beginners. You played the best one you could find. The very best old Generations, in my opinion, have never been equalled (but IMHO Sindts and Killarneys are very close).

I’ve done hundreds of studio gigs. Every one has been done on my c1980 Feadog D and my c1980 Generation C.

I never found a good Generation Bb and for that key I use a Freeman.

17

Maybe so, but for sure practice can change your approach to playing that instrument, which can make a huge difference. I know it was probably five years of whistle playing before I had the breath control to make a Generation-style whistle sound good. (In the early years I got by because I played whistles with a higher back pressure that could compromise enough with my bassoon player instincts to get me up and running.)

18

My first whistle I bought at a historic site; rolled tin replica of an old whistle. Not very good, and I got nowhere with it. I thought it was defective until a friend picked it up and played a respectable scale on it. So I tried again, and soon walked into a music store and bought the first blue-top Generation I picked out of the jar. It’s not a carefully selected ‘good’ Gen, or an old one, just bog standard. Did the standard tweaking of the windway, blue tack etc, but nothing else.

After a while, I convinced myself I ‘needed’ a better whistle, that Gen (and all the other cheapies I bought around the same time) was holding me back. So I got a Sindt (first of three in different keys), a Humphrey, and came into an Impempe… all ‘better’ whistles for sure. And I do love them. But when I do pick up that old Gen from time to time, now that I am a better player, it is a great little whistle and really does anything and more I need it to do. My daughter fairly recently bought a couple of brass Gens in D and Bb. Off the shelf, minimal tweaking, and they are also great whistles. All of my cheapies have magically turned into pretty good whistles over time… just played a couple of tunes on that replica whistle I used to think was defective: works just fine. They are all fine, except the Clarke Sweetones and Megs which I should just destroy or give to someone I don’t like. Never played a Freeman, but I’m sure they are worth paying a little more for one that has been done over. So I’m in the camp that says it’s more about the player than the price of the whistle. You do get something special with a whistle from one of the good makers… I guess; you can’t have mine, I’m keeping them… but with time and practice, that ten dollar whistle somehow gets better and better.

19

Hmmmm, love all the comments. I will only add you should find a whistle that can become your voice. When I started, I was bored easily. So I went from whistle to whistle and from key to key for the sake of variety. I remember reading back then that this was a poor way to learn. I’m sure that is right. It is a poor way to learn, but for me, it was a great way to have fun…And I was playing more for fun than for learning.

There is no right or wrong way to go about it . . . if your budget allows a variety of whistles, go for em. My budget was modest so I used this forum as a way to purchase and sell, purchase and sell until I found the whistles I felt like I could not part with. The first whistle I fell in love with was a Busman out of Tulipwood. Love at first toot. After several years, I now have a whistle I love in each key. Doesn’t mean I still wouldn’t like a new whistle or two (or twenty), but I have what I need to play in my environments. My voice has full expression - in whatever key is needed. What fun!

We live in a great time to play whistle. Their are quality craftsmen who have poured years of trial and error, money, sweat and tears into mastering their work. We also have a forum, like this, where experienced musicians are willing to offer their opinions and advice to those of us who are tinkering with learning. What a great combo!

I gave up a long time ago trying to play a certain way, or copying a style of someone else. The basics are very helpful in teaching one what the whistle can do - but the fun starts when things start to click and you discover your own voice. Finding the right whistle(s) is part of that process. The whistle can be a vastly expressive instrument sensitive to nuance of breath, and touch and emotion. In my book, this makes it the perfect instrument for pure enjoyment . . . may your adventure continue both as you find your voice and whistle.

20

I agree with keeping the whistling fun.