Hey,
I’m a beginner. What’s the preferred fingering out there for playing a C natural on D whistle? Is it 000xx0? Or does half-holing producer a better note?
I’m playing a tweaked Clark original and a Jerry Freeman Blackbird. And sometimes the C nats sound a little off playing 000xx0. I’m working on Dochas at the moment, and I’m having trouble making those Cs sound sweet.
(Then again, perhaps it’s just my inconsistent blowing.)
Best,
Joe
Flip it, from the top hole 0xx 000, that is:
0
x
x
0
0
0
There are lots of ways to play C natural. Besides half-holing and OXX OOO, there’s OXX XOO, OXX XOX, and OXX XXO. All of those give a flatter Cnat than OXX OOO. On cheapie high whistles, I find that OXX XOX usually works best for me.
Welcome to the Chiffboards, by the way. 
Welcome to the board, Joeryan. Excuse me while I adjust my flame suit. OK. I personally use OXX XOX probably 25% of the time, and I half hole the rest… I started taking lessons very late in the game, and while my teacher certainly embraces cross fingering, she has also taught me the art of half-holing. I find I am using it more and more. There is an odd satisfaction in being able to half hole the c natural at speed, while keeping it in tune. If I had it to do over again, I would definitely have learned to half hole correctly from the beginning.
When it comes to a ‘preferred’ method for the C natural, I have probably seen cross fingering being used more than half holing. And yet there are those who always use one or the other.
In the end, for me, it is horses for courses. If I am moving to a C natural from a near note - especially a B - I will half hole. If I am making a jump to the C natural from a distant note, I will probably use the cross fingering. However, I have been known to break that rule… I do know that as I get older and become more experienced, I find that I am gravitating to half holing more and more - hence the 75% vs 25%, above.
My respectful suggestions are to ensure first that you are using the proper methodology in your half holing, to ensure correct intonation and timbre - and then to learn both methods, and become equally friendly and competent with each.
Best wishes in your endeavor.
Byll
I’ll stir the pot a bit more here. (I am more of the same mind as Byll generally though.)
As has been said there are many ways to play a C nat on a D whistle. The one to use depends on the particular whistle and the context of the note within the tune. In many dance tunes the C natural will be a passing note which is not held for long enough to actually notice the tuning of that note. But when the C natural is held longer it will matter how you play it.
First off, the half-holed C works well on all whistles, provided the top hole is large enough to give a strong enough note. That should be the go to method.
Secondly, different whistle will be tuned better to the various cross fingerings. Figure out which one offers the best tuning on your whistle to determine that. I don’t have a Tweaked Clark or Freeman Blackbird here to advise you on that. But I’d bet that each of those would prefer a different cross fingering.
Lastly, the context of the note might be considered in the sense that economy of motion comes into play. If you are playing a descending DCB triplet from second octave D, OXX XXX, down to the first octave B, XOO OOO, then it makes sense to lift one finger and play OXX XOX for the C nat. Similarly it may make sense on an ascending BCD triplet to play the B, XOO OOO followed by the C played OXX OOO then the D, OXX XXX. And of course it may also be logical to play the ascending BCD triplet by going from the B, XOO OOO, then sliding the top finger to the C, DOO OOO and then playing the D, OXX XXX. But that may not result in a disctinct and articulate C. So think about the context of the tune and what it calls for. There are of course other patterns to consider within the context of a tune. You’ll figure them out as you play more tunes.
So I would suggest that you embrace all the ways of playing the C nat and endeavor use them how they make the most sense.
Have fun “playing”.
Feadoggie
I saw Paddy Keenan up close as he played an air on a low-d whistle, and I was interested to observe he used half holed c naturals. I don’t know if he always uses half holes, or if it depends on the tune and/or the whistle. I have found some of my whistles really don’t work well with cross fingered c natual, but some are great. I usually only try oxx ooo and if it doesn’t work then I half hole. I just don’t have the chops to have a ton of cross fingering options to keep track of 
I pretty much did what highland piper did until I got a flute that required OXXXOO, so I switched to that. If that doesn’t work, I’ll half hole. I can keep only so many things in my brain too.
On a related note (pun not originally intended, but what the hey, I’ll own it 
), I’ve just started using XOOXXX for the bottom B on my Mellow Dog , instead of the XOOOOO nominated in all the tutorials and fingering charts (except http://fullbodyburn.com/ which is where I got the idea). On long notes I was finding the XOOOOO fingering just felt a bit ‘harsh’. Not flat or sharp, just… harsh. I tried varying the breath from silence to the note breaking and still felt the same. Sorry, my ears are nowhere near well enough trained to give a better assessment than that 
But the XOOXXX fingering sounds sweeter and a bit quieter to me. (I must ask my wife how it sounds to her - she’s got much more musical training and a much better ear than I have). Relearning the fingering on my few tunes has been a challenge, but I figure getting used to alternatives is all part of the “whistler’s kit” I’m endeavouring to acquire.
Sorry to derail, or at least sidetrack, the thread!
Cheers
Marc E
Yes, that fingering works on most whistles. It is what I call a lazy fingering. The nuns that taught me piano, had they taught whistle, would have certainly smacked my hand with a ruler if I used them. But, you can bounce from, say, the second octave D, when played XXX XXX to the B and back by limiting the number of fingers at play. So it works well.
The XOO XXX also works for the second octave B. And that fingering helps to facilitate the sounding of the high B on whistles that might be difficult or cranky otherwise up there.
Lazy fingerings (there’s probably a less pejorative term, anyone?) are many. They sometimes require a whistle (or flute) with generous hole sizes to work best. You’ll discover them as you learn more tunes. You’ll find yourself asking, “How the heck do I play that?” And you’ll work at it until you finally stumble on one and realize that fewer fingers need be lifted than you might think to play what seemed like difficult passage.
Do you know “Drowsy Maggie”? That’s one example most players will run into early on.
Feadoggie
The nuns! I still have nightmares 
We had one called Sister Our-Lady-of-Perpetual-Succour who was a holy terror to us all
Oh dear, “lazy” fingering! Maybe I’ll think of it as “flexible” fingering instead. Interestingly, on the Bluebird the difference isn’t anything like as marked. Maybe it’s the wider bore +/or larger fingerholes of the Mellow Dog. Half-holing is easier on the MD.
Cheers
Marc E
Lazy fingerings (there’s probably a less pejorative term, anyone?)
You could go with the open (putting down only minimal number the fingers required to play the note correctly) and closed (taking off only the minimal number of fingers required to play the note correctly) terminology some other instruments use.
But, you can bounce from, say, the second octave D, when played XXX XXX to the B and back by limiting the number of fingers at play. So it works well.
In all fairness though, while you can get away with not venting the d’ in some cases, being lazy with the d’ xxx xxx can work against you in that sort of movements involving a’ and b’ and going back to d’ (say the second Matt Peoples, Fred Finn’s). oxx xxx will always get you the better result, especially on the flute, and I have made a point of venting d’ in places like that in my own playing. But I agree with your point about the a’ and b’.
And we should probably insert the caveat here that wider bore (high) whistles are less tolerant to some of the ‘lazy’ fingerings on second octave notes than the more narrow tubed ones.
You’re right, Peter. I am certainly not promoting the XXX XXX fingering for the second octave D. The OXX XXX will always play better and is a fail safe fingering since it forces the second octave note to sound. That’s how I was taught. It’s what I use and teach. But since I was introducing up the topic of lazy (closed?) fingerings I thought it would be illustrative.
I do think some experimentation is a good thing for a player. And getting to know what your instrument will and will not do is a useful voyage of discovery. While it may not be “proper” some “cheating” is used by most players in specific circumstances, at least as I have observed things. I am sure your experience is different from mine, as I am living on the edges of the diaspora. here in the US.
I don’t find the wide bore to be the issue. I play a lot of wide bore whistles that do just fine with most of the “cheat” fingerings. May be more of the holes sizes relative to the bore - there are a lot of variables to consider. (That’s part of what got me into making whistles - to answer the question “Why?”.) Safe to say that an alternate fingering may not work on all whistles. Best to test them out. Hard part, for me at least, is remembering what works on which whistle - same for flutes IME.
Feadoggie
I do think some experimentation is a good thing for a player. And getting to know what your instrument will and will not do is a useful voyage of discovery.
Couldn’t agree with you more. Don’t get too hung up on what is prescribed by the tutors (or the internet). If it works, it works. And it does sometimes vary from one whistle to the next.
I have come across a number of whistles that were particularly intolerant to ‘lazy’ fingerings, essentially keeping the lowest hole covered in the second octave. They were all whistles using a wider tube, hence my leap to what I said about that.
“What’s the preferred fingering out there for playing a C natural on D whistle?”
Definitely not the preferred way but for an equal volume and in tune Cnat in both octaves it does the trick.
The dreaded thumb hole.