I have a request for you: I’d greatly appreciate it if a couple of you could measure the size and spacing of the tone holes on your Olwell Prattens, for spacing I’d need the distance in mm from the top edge of hole #1 to the bottom edge of hole #3, and then the measurement from the top edge of #4 to the bottom edge of #6.
Reason I ask is that recent events have lead me to believe I may have an Olwell “Nicholson” rather than a “Pratten”… the measurements above will clarify for me.
Are we talkin’ the infamous “Cocus Cannon”
here that you received around mid-June?
Is there an outside chance that Mr. Olwell
would have the answer…or is there something I’m missing here?
Hey Guys, thanks for the reach measurements I do need the hole sizes as well I’m afraid…yeah, I’m a PITA, LOL!
Yeah, we’re talking about the Cocus Cannon. Last I heard Pat was off on a trip, and besides, I hate to bother the man while he’s working - people are waiting for their flutes too!
Hmm . . . don’t take this the wrong way, but I am a little uncomfortable about posting the measurements of an extant flutemaker’s work. I know you’re not trying to make a ripoff Olwell Pratten, but I still am not comfortable with it.
Especially since the problem could be so easily solved if you were to call Pat, who would certainly want to resolve any such confusion.
His Nicholson and Pratten designs may not differ by all that much, remember.
Loren, later today I’ll take measurements.
There is so much that goes into making a flute. Hole size, distance, outside dimensions… these are like the icing on the cake.
It’s like asking for measurement of the computer box and screen, are you any closer to produce that computer?
Posting measurements for the sake of identifying an instrument is NOT ethically wrong. You’d need a whole lot more than hole size and placement dimensions to copy a flute.
I understand your concerns, but as Chris Abell told me over lunch last week: “There are no secrets in flute making - once you have one of my flutes, you have all my secrets in your hands.” We were eating burritos at the time…
Seriously, people post hole spacing and sizing information all the time, for all sorts of reasons. Besides, as others have mentioned, hole spacing and size are just the tip of the iceberg, they’ll get you nothing useful by themselves. Now if I happened to be asking for bore profile measurements…
Anyway, this is a minor issue, and not worth bothering Patrick over, unless I find out I didn’t get what I ordered…in the mean time, I respect your decision Stuart, that’s cool.
Loren-- thanks for understanding. Chris Abell has always taken that position, and I admire him for it. It is his opinion, though, and others might not feel that way. As a matter of fact, ironically, I was asked by another maker last week not to let anyone measure a particular flute. I was not ‘prohibited’ from doing it, I was just asked. Though I don’t think it’s necessarily a minor issue, Loren, since everyone can’t help but wonder . . . you’ve talked up the ‘Cocus Cannon’ so much, and now you’re saying you think you might have a Nicholson. So I think you should talk to Pat about it. What is it that makes you think you have a Nicholson?
Jessie-- I never said I thought it was unethical, I just said I was uncomfortable with it. I suppose I implied it, sure. But since there are really no ethical absolutes, and I don’t know what Pat would think, I’d rather have the OK from him first.
To answer your question Stuart: Jessie’s Delrin Olwell is a Nicholson. When I compared my Cocus Flute to her Delrin, side by side, they appeared to be virtually identical in terms of hole sizing and spacing, although I didn’t have calipers with me at the time.
Now, Jessie mentioned that she had recently played Terry Briley’s new Olwell Pratten, and compared it side by side with her Delrin flute. She told me that the hole sizes and spacing on those two flutes was clearly different, so it makes sense that my flute may indeed be a “Nicholson” Olwell rather than a “Pratten” Olwell.
So I don’t think you can resolve this at all without calling Olwell himself. I seem to recall that you mentioned you’d gotten your flute with a split (à la Rudall) between the top and bottom hands; it’s possible also that knowing that your hands/wrists/etc. give you trouble, Pat modified the hole spacing. Or something.
Spacing of the holes and their surface dimensions may not be what makes a Pratten a Pratten, since with creative undercutting you do have some leeway.
It’s interesting, though, and I bet everyone will be interested to hear what you find out.
I, for one, can not find a ruler anywhere for the life of me, so I can not measure my flute.
I can say, however, that the hole size and spacing was all but identical (to my eye at least) between my Olwell, Grinter and Copley.
I think that it is primarily the bore that makes a flute “Rudall”, “Pratten”, “Nicholson”, etc.
Best,
Chris
Stuart, you may be right, the split Rudall Style body may have something to do with it -for example the #4 hole is very close to the socket of the split, so perhaps using the usual Pratten hole pattern is impossible when going for a split body, I don’t know.
A call to Patrick may be in order, but I’d like to have some idea what I’m talking about when I call - I don’t know that Pat remembers the particulars on every flute he makes, and I’m curious to know how different the hole spacing and sizes are, so I can be an informed consumer regardles, because if this flute is indeed different than the standard Olwell Pratten, then I want one of those too!
Anyway, these numbers (Olwell Pratten hole sizes) have been posted here before, I just can’t find them at the moment, so the info is already out there.
OK Loren.
On my Olwell Pratten hole sizes:
7.9
9.35
7.5
9.5
10.9
6.75
Terry’s Pratten hole spacing is close to Olwell on the first three, and then moves on.
I’m sure hole spacing and bore measurement and taper are related.
Flute making is so much more than hole spacing and size that any respectable maker should not care to share this kind of information.
Loren, you got us all curious, so please keep us posted.
All the best, eilam.
I just got a used LeHart. The finger hole sizes are very close to what’s in Eilam’s message. So, my LeHart, as far as finger hole size, is Pratten like. Good to know.
Bill
[ This Message was edited by: SuiZen on 2003-02-02 07:22 ]
