My first workshop (this post is long and boring--but I had t

Whistle
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Today was day one of my first workshop. It concludes tomorrow. When I signed up I had the option for the beginner class or the intermediate/advanced. I am firmly in the middle of those two options so I chose the upper one, thinking I’d maybe be bored in the beginner one. Tonight I question my logic.

First, they used the letter notation on the chalk board and I have never read letter notation (ABG GBD’ D’E’A’ etc) and found that I do so terribly. And I’m not a good one at picking up by ear quickly. So, guess how it went? After a while I just listened and made sure I wrote the letters down on paper correctly. Tomorrow I’ll take a tape recorder.

The other thing is I sort of wonder how these usually work. Today we learned 3 jigs that he had us make into a set. Tomorrow we learn 3 reels for another set. Is this what workshops usually do? I don’t seem to have really learned much, except that I’m not very good. I guess my expectation was that we’d work on some techniques and maybe learn some practice methods. I wanted to learn ways to improve – not six songs.

Well, anyway, the experiencs is good in some ways. I get to hear other people play and I get to immerse in music for four hours. And maybe I’ll meet a new whistle buddy.

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At my first (and only, so far) whistle and flute workshop, I felt that I was not taught very much. We also had a beginner class and an intermediate/advanced class, but each was about 2 hours long. I would have liked to learn specifics about ornamentation, but we spent time listening to the instructor talk about style, and did more listening than playing. The students were all at different skill levels, so some were overwhelmed and some were bored.

I think the biggest problem is that it is difficult to learn anything in a class with 20 other people, unless they have been playing together for a while. It was difficult for me, anyway. One on one lessons would do me better, though I did appreciate listening to the instructor play and studying his technique.

I suggested to the instructor I thought it would be better if he gave a small playlist to the students before the workshop convenes so the students would have some common ground to start on.

madfifer9

“I tell you, we are here on earth to fart around, and don’t let anybody tell you any different.” – Kurt Vonnegut

[ This Message was edited by: madfifer9 on 2003-03-01 22:37 ]

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Your experiences are not uncommon with regard to tin whistle classes. Unfortunately, many instructors are self-taught, and/or have been playing for so long, they do everything by instinct and so find it difficult to break playing down into practicalities. Also, not every good player is a good teacher. Another problem in the workshop setting, as you already pointed out, the range of abilities among the participants can vary considerably. This makes it even more difficult for the workshop leader to focus on specifics.
I have found that in my own workshops, I have clearly defined goals outlined in the description of the workshop so that students know what to expect. Goals can include basic fingering, breathing, articulation and simple tunes for beginners; or the basics of ornamentation and style for intermediates including cuts/graces, taps/tips, and rolls; and advanced ornamentation, articulation, phrasing, variations etc. for advanced. Unfortunately, most workshops simply are labeled “Beginner, Intermediate/Improver, Advanced”. Best bet is to try to go to all the workshops and tape everything. Then go home and pick out the useful bits! Most teachers will not mind if you go up after the class and ask specific questions and tape examples. Good luck!

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FJohnSharp

Yes that sound like a tipical workshop. You were lucky you were not taking it with Mary
Bergin you would have had to learn by ear in the workshop.
Workshops are intense leaning experiences. They are not meant to be lessons. If you have a recoder and the written music (A B C) and they are giving you the count you will have something to work on for at least a few weeks.

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FJohnSharp: I read your message and smiled - a lot…You have come up against a situation which has plagued workshop-goers for years. I have only been at one whistle workshop, and although it was valuable, you defined the realilties of the situation, perfectly…

I have, however, both attended and taught at hammer dulcimer workshops, longer than I can remember. Many workshop sessions, not identified as such, end up as ‘repertoire’ gathering sessions, and the learning is by rote…I find that not a whole lot of valuable ‘information’ is gleaned at such sessions…Other sessions are mis-represented concerning their difficulty level. The instructors in workshops seem to have very little technical material for advanced players - and advanced players have as much to learn as anyone…just on a different level…Intermediate and beginner levels seem to be the easiest to teach for instructors, for obvious reasons, but often - again - sink to the level of learning repertoire by rote…

Part of the problem seems to be that excellent players are often not excellent instructors. And that is to be expected. All the educational theory in the world will not make a good teacher, but total lack of knowledge in that area is truly a handicap for a workshop leader… In the hammer dulcimer world, I have found very few truly excellent teachers. Karen Ashbrook (Wendy Morrison’s colleague), Randy Marchaney (of the group, No Strings Attached), and Jem Moore come to mind as superb teachers. They teach with a PLAN - using humor, good group discipline tactics, depth of knowlege, and a host of interesting techniques…
If one wants the psychology of playing, one goes to Steve Schneider. No one is better…

I do not know who these talented people are, in the whistle world. I truly would like to find workshops where techniques are taught. If I wish to work on repertoire, I can do so, myself. How to get the marvelously intricate sounds out of the instrument, that I hear on recordings, is my desire for a workshop session.

Madfifer9 is correct, in that a class of 20 whistlers makes learning a challenge. However, as a public school teacher, I am expected to teach a class of 30 students, 10 of which are special needs children, every period of every day. It can be done. I am not special. All public school teachers do this as a part of their every day existence.

I would love to see what would change in the workshop world, if the instructors would sit down with some quality educators, who are also whistle players, to work out educationally sound curriculum planning and workshop session techniques. The difference in our workshops would be worth the trouble for all involved…

Rant off.

Wow… I wish the sun would return to South Central Pennsylvania. The grey is getting old…

Best.
Byll

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John,
I guess I was there but didn’t introduce myself. I was the old guy in the middle of the same row you were at the end of, surrounded by the 12 year old hotshots who were told to play slower. You were playing a Susato, right? I gave up and just listened way before you did and I would have left if I’d been able to do it politely. I am taking lessons and I think thats the way for me to go. It takes me a bit more than 5 minutes to learn a new tune. :slight_smile:.

Sorry I didn’t get there earlier so we could chat. At least we know what we look like now.
Mike

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Byll

You are absolutely right about a good musician not being a good teacher.
If you get a chance to take a workshop or a class with Jerry O’Sullivan you will find that his many years a public school teacher come across clearly in the workshop. Jerry and Bill Ochs are both great teacher on Whistle and Pipes. Bill teaches Flute and I was recently surprised by Jerry Flute playing all though I do not know if he gives flute lessons.
They are both located in the North East so it may be possible for you to contact them and set up a workshop in your area. I suspect that you might have to organize the workshop though through a local organization.

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Agreed. Here locally there’s a music store, and I am going to start teaching whistle there by request.

I am astonished they want ME to teach, because I KNOW there are at least a few other local musicians that play whistle at least somewhat better than I do.

I explained to them that I can only learn / play by ear, and the only thing I could really put on a chalk board was fingering chart stuff, and ornamentation stuff, and walk through it with the ‘students’

He said that’s exactly what they want, and I don’t even need to know how to read sheet music… just give instruction on HOW to play.

I’m excited to help out any way I can, but I’m still blown away. Now that I read the posts here though… I never really thought about it.

I’ve never done a scheduled workshop, but I have found that all the professional musicians I have met, either just don’t want to share, or just don’t get how to share their knowledge I guess.

Take care all,
John

Edit: You know what?! Would you all mind posting some of the things you really would have wanted to learn? I would love to give these people what they really want or need.

All I’ve come up with is fingering (what note is what) Breathing, tounguing, ornamentation, and breaking it all down to each persons level of understanding… just taking everything real slow is all I can think of so far… ideas???

(Like I was thinking for a first simple tune with a first simple ornamentation could be something like Britches full of Stitches. Has two short ornamentations at the end of the verse. I also figured this might be one of the easiest tunes to introduce the second octave… give them some excitement in learning). I can just research everything to the fullest extent before any class. They want me to start next month!!! :astonished:

Thanks for any input in advance btw.



[ This Message was edited by: McHaffie on 2003-03-02 12:37 ]

[ This Message was edited by: McHaffie on 2003-03-02 12:52 ]

[ This Message was edited by: McHaffie on 2003-03-02 12:55 ]

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Yes, Mike, that was me playing the Sausato. And I felt very self conscious about it. I mean, most of the ‘kids’ had nickel Gens and there I was, one of the weaker players, sporting a whistle that cost three times as much. It’s like the guy who buys $100 sneakers and a $200 warmup suit to play pickup backetball with a bunch of guys wearing cut-offs and tank tops and he can’t even dribble.

Wasn’t the little solo thing horrible? I was lucky that I had one song I felt comfortable playing to a crowd (Donnybrook Fair for those scoring at home). At least I did it okay.

The woman next to me had a Sausato too. She was keeping up fairly well. The kid next to you was good. He didn’t come back today. In fact, about half od the people didn’t come back, while we had three new people. Jimmy Noonan was trying to think of a reel that no one knew, and every time he played one she nodded her head that she already knew it. He ran through about a dozen before he stumped her.

We ended up learning 4 reels today, giving three sets total. At the end he played them straight through for us to record. He’s pretty damn good.

One good thing, I found out the name of a teacher from the Sausato lady.

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Well, I’m going to a couple of workshops at the 2003 CCE convention in Boston in April. I’ve never been to one before, but there are some things I’ve gleaned from this discussion:

  1. Don’t get my hopes up too high, but maybe I’ll make a couple of friends, maybe.

  2. Be ready to play something I know. For me, this means bringing along sheet music and a stand.

  3. Technique may not be discussed at all, just some new tunes.

Is this accurate? BTW, the instuctors are Matt Cunningham and Kathleen Conneely. Anybody have any experience with either one of them? I’m signed up for the intermediate workshops.

Thanks for any insight!

Robin

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Hi Robin,

I don’t intend to sound mean, but if you need the sheetmusic to play, you don’t KNOW the tune; you’re just sightreading with advanced knowledge. :smiley:

You really need to know it by heart, so you can close your eyes and let your fingers do the walking. That way you’re concentrating on the sound, not the dots on the page. This was drummed into me at two different classes here in London. It’s OK to have the notes written down (ABC or stave) when you’re first learning the tune, but you want to get away from the written page asap.

I was suprised to hear that intermediate players would be expected to learn a 3 tune set in one sitting, having never seen or heard the tunes before. I’d expect to be able to learn maybe one tune in one session.

I attended two different classes at the Hammersmith Irish Centre to learn mandolin & whistle, and my feeling was that I would progress quicker on my own. The class was really intended to boost my repertoire, and I certailnly have the sheetmusic for dozens of tunes from the mandolin class that I still don’t know by heart.

My €0.02

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John,
Don’t feel bad about the Susato. I don’t think anybody else noticed. The guy next to me was indeed very good. He was playind an O’Riordan mouthpiece on a Gen nickel tube, perfectly in tune to my ears. He had another O’Riordan in his bag. I’ve met a couple of those kids before. Most of them got started at 6 or 7 years old, learn the whistle and then go on to another instrument. I guess I’ll keep plodding along and maybe someday I’ll be able to join them in a slow jig.
Mike