Moral Support Needed

Isn’t true traditional music just taking whatever instruments are available and playing music? I think so. I’d tell them to bugger off. :devil:

Play, and have FUN!!! :party: :party:

Tony

I STILL want to do a set at a session with all kazoos just for the craic. :smiling_imp:

Grey Larsen includes an appendix on how to play IrTrad music on the Boehm flute, either open or closed hole. You might take a look at that. He mainly interviewed Joanie Madden (open-holed) and Chris Abell (close-holed).

A friend of ours has an Abell blackwood flute.
Oh, my.

You might, by the way, consider playing
a blackwood Boehm flute, or a blackwood
simple system flute.
Ornamentation is likely
going to be faster and easier
on the latter. This would go some
distance towards appeasing the
barbarians and simple system flutes
are very lovely.

If you think Boehm system flutes are in any way limiting to Irish music, you should give a listen not only to Joannie but also to Noel Rice of Baal Tinne. Good, good stuff. Wicked good playing.

–James

Yeah, I recall a recording of Noel playing Ríl Bhéara in A, not sounding squeaky, AND it sounded like a wooden flute to me, damn my ears. I was very surprised to learn it was a metal Boehm. The man can control his flute, no question.

I know that there are people who play ITM
wonderfully on Boehms; still I thought that
simple system flutes make ornamentation
easier and wood sounds more traditional,
at least in the hands of many amateurs
like myself. But I don’t play Boehm flute
so I don’t really know.

Also, if one is being mocked for playing
a Boehm in ITM settings, and really doesn’t
like it, one remedy
is to go wooden simple system. I know this
isn’t what one is supposed to say…still,
it’s an option that might solve the problem.
It’s unlikely that anybody is going to
get bent out of shape because somebody
at a session playing an Irish flute
is ornamenting only lightly. Best

“style of play” is what essentially matters. to go into a session of classical players playing classical music and to play in my itrad way would be a little intrusive to their session and perhaps disrespectful to them especially if they aren’t really all that interested in irtrad to begin with. it wouldn’t matter what type of flute (boehm vs. wooden) i was playing.

just as a classical player (doesn’t matter if its boehm or wooden flute that they’re playing) crashing an itrad session and expecting approval and acceptance … might be unrealistic.

i don’t think it matters so much as what type of flute but rather how it is played, the style of play and the context in which it is played.

a classical player will probably sound classical on a hamilton flute even though the hamilton flute is often asscociated with itrad fluteplaying, and the opposite would be true as well. so i wonder if the focus of this thread being placed on boehm flutes is really is missing the mark. maybe it should be on the style of play of the player and not on the type of flute and on the context in which the flute is being played as well.

Makes sense. And Caitlin, from his initial post,
is also running into people who appear to
be going by appearances–what’s THAT
doing HERE? Best

Thank you all for your wonderful replies! It really helps.

regarding Noel Rice, I heard a lovely anecdote about why he plays a silver flute: apparently he was at a session sometime in the '70s and someone sat on his wood flute, destroying it. at the time it was much harder to get a wooden flute in this country, so he switched to silver and never looked back. :smiley: (Joanie Madden also ran over her entire sheaf (?) of whistles with her car, but the space-age polymer that they’re made out of survived!)

Too many things have been said here for me to reply to all of them, but a few things do come to mind…

I was going to get an Abell Flute a couple years ago, but I had to have surgery instead when my name came to the top of the list…and I’ve never been able to get the money together since. Well, maybe I’ll win the lottery. My main problem with wood is that my hands are small and strangely shaped and I just can’t cover the holes (I can’t really play a low whistle for that reason, either) A friend of mine has a Sam Murray flute which worked better for me…but it’s always a question, do I want to spend the money on something I may never be able to play properly because of physical limitatons? Many wood enthusiasts tell me “just to keep working on it,” but believe me, working on it isn’t going to make me grow an extra digit or two!!

As far as playing out goes…of course I’m not really worried about the lunch ladies even knowing what traditional music sounds like, although I do like to do my best no matter who’s listening. It was never the audiences that bothered me, it was the other players in other bands at festivals and stuff. And it’s left me with this kind of…greasy feeling.

I do entirely strive for the best sound I can get. the thing that comes hardest is…that flow, the way irish flute music sounds like running water, don’t know how else to describe it. Scottish flute playing not so much–scottish music in general is..more driving, choppier. I play flute more like a Cape Breton Fiddler fiddles, but I’d like to achieve that flow some day.

And in closing–the first gig I ever did, we had to play “When Irish Eyes Are Smiling” about 15 times because people requested it.

Slainte

Caitlin

Looks like we had crossover posts

Yeah, Rama, I completely agree with that. And I think my original post is twofold:

A: I’m tired of all these weezers who judge me for my silver flute rather than my actual playing

and

B: Really, how much ornamentation is necessary to and “authentic” style, or is ornamentation even the issue? What makes an “authentic style?”

PS–Jim, I’m a “she” not a “He.”

Caitlin

what draws one to irtrad music in the first place? what qualities?
the answer to this question, which probably every individual needs to find for themselves, usually reveals the truth about authenticity.

Another thought, Caitlin: if you play a lot of Scots tunes, a Boehm is probably a good idea anyway. They generally seem to be either primal and pentatonic or very full of accidentals; and looking through my Skye Collection, there are a lot wrtitten in the key of Qb! :wink:

I shudder to think. looks at his simple-system stick

Oh yes, the strange world of Scottish tonality, with keys such as Qb, PDQ and QED!

AFAIK…YYMV. :wink:

Caitlin,

Now granted, the fellow I’ve been taking lessons from tends to be very clean in his approach to it all – and believe me, he can play rings around a heck of a lot of people – but I think it kind of boils down to the old adage “If it’s got a good beat and you can dance to it …” :slight_smile:

Seriously, though – I’ve noticed in the last, say, 6 months or so that there’s been a big change in my playing, and in people’s response to it. Now, more often than not, I can take a turn or a solo or some such, and by the second go on the A part the crowd is tapping their feet, the tables, clapping along, etc. And it’s really been since my tutor finally got me to believe that it’s all about the tune – the ornamentation, variations, etc. are secondary, only there for support. Now granted, it’s taken a LOT of practice (and is going to take a lifetime’s more) to get the ornamentation & other stuff to a point where it doesn’t call attention to itself, but ever since I’ve had that breakthrough – the beginnings of being able to use those tools only to emphasize the tune – things have gotten much better.

Anyway, keep at it. From what I understand and hear, it’s not how you do the ornaments, but how you use them that seems to count. And it seems with the truly brilliant players, the tune just becomes this wonderful organic thing.

Have a ball!

Ooops!

P.S. Casey Burns makes good relatively inexpensive
Irish flutes for people with small hands,
which you might be able to arrange with him
to try and return if it doesn’t
work for you. I do think he’s willing to
talk to you about this, at least, if you’re interested.
If you haven’t already, you can check his
site. Best

If you can save up for it, a wooden Boehm-system flute would make a good compromise, but they cost a lot. Impressive-looking, though.

In fact, if you’re after the dark and complex tone that’s associated with conical flutes, you can probably get a better approximation of it by keeping your metal flute and adding a custom-made wooden head to it. Wooden Boehm system flutes built for the classical flute market will usually sound (and cost) very similar to a very good metal flute. By contrast, it’s amazing how much improvement and change you can get out of a flute by just adding a good handmade head.

I’ve had a very good experience with a Mark Hoza head on my metal Miyazawa. http://www.woodenflutemaker.com There are many other makers, so it’s good to shop around. But for what it’s worth, i think Mark is very easy to work with and his product is visually and aurally beautifull.

Sounds to me like you’ve got it, Cathy. Or you’re well along the road to getting it, at least. It is all about the tune, as you say, but more importantly it’s all about the tune being a dance tune. What it is that makes the tune a dance tune is hard, very hard, to describe in words. It’s variously called “swing”, “rhythm”, “lift”, etc, but really it’s something you have to feel rather than describe. Ornaments, speed, tone, breath, none of those things will make a tune a dance tune, but they can be used to help you make a tune into a dance tune, once you feel it. People always seem to think that faster is better, but if they’re playing fast without feeling it, their playing will not be dance music no matter how flashy it may sound. You can tap your feet slow or you can tap your feet fast, but if it’s not dance music no matter how fast it is it won’t make you tap your feet.

As far as Boehm flute players go, I think that this is the biggest reason so many of them get a bad rap in Irish session circles (and to tell you the truth, it’s mostly deserved). Most if not all Boehm flute players trying Irish music are classical players making the switch. As such, they already know their way around the instrument and can play as fast as you’d like, straightaway. But they have no feel for the music, so they’re playing strings of fast notes rather than dance tunes. It may be music, it may be flashy, but it’s not Irish dance music. And speaking as someone who plays Irish dance music in sessions, it’s very difficult to play with people who don’t have a feel for it, no matter what the speed. It’s not just flute players who are guilty of this, either - classical violinists do the same thing and it’s just as irritating. But for them at least, when they go into a session and pop open their case, their violin looks just like a fiddle so it’s not until they start playing that they’ll begin attracting scorn. No such luck for the Boehm flute player…

So Cathy, keep up the good work. You’re on the right track!