Can anyone share their experience with using Long F vs short F in simple system flutes.
I had a flute which made the long F easy to reach and found the long F more useful than the F, except for E/Fnat trills and fingering. My fingering from Fnat to D and back again doesn’t sound so good on the short F key but recently my left short finger is strained from overdoing it.
Are there any guidelines on when to use the long F rather than the short F?
Pretty simple, long F for D/F and F/D passages, short F for everything else… (duh)
I wonder how Nicholson, who I believe had only a short F key on hist flutes,
managed these D/F fingerings? What does one do if one only has short F?
have the touch angled a bit lower on the R3 side
it doesn’t take much to remove the need to raise R3 more than wee bit
Interesting. Thanks, Denny.
we drifted through this back in April
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/someone-to-test-something-on-a-keyed-flute-for-me/81357/27
With regard to long vs. short, I have been advised that long is better.
June NiChormaic, for one, has just the short F on her keyed flute. I use the short F most of the time. I can go from the Fn to the D without a perceptible pause but it took years to be able to do that. I am happy, though, to have the long F when I feel that I need it. Aaron Olwell told me years ago to use the little finger on the long F key because “that finger isn’t doing anything so you might as well put it to use.” But it doesn’t respond as quickly for me as the short F key - a combination of a slow finger and, perhaps, a longer pivot point.
I think of keys on the flute as a car with a standard, rather than an automatic, transmission. You don’t need instant access to a lower gear all the time but it’s nice to have it there when you want it. It gives you more control over the vehicle. Likewise, I feel more in control of the flute - and the tune - when I know that I can hit the accidental cleanly.
I never played the whistle before picking up the flute. I came to the flute from the fiddle and very quickly moved to a keyed flute. I wanted to play those fiddle-friendly modal tunes, and keys felt useful and natural to me. Sometimes I get caught out playing the one instrument on a tune that fits better on the other. At the session last night I was playing the fiddle when a fluter launched the flute friendly Trim the Velvet. I was tempted to respond with The Jaundiced Itinerant but that kind of trash talk can ruin a friendly session.
IME, the length isn’t as important as the placement.
I agree with Ben, but I find best results in having both.
Agreed. Oh, and btw, I much prefer a long F myself. The short ones just don’t do it for me any more. Although sometimes they can be nice.
Never mind the length, it’s how you use it which counts!
I probably use mine about equally overall, but less so depending on key/mode context - one or other will tend to dominate. Of course, I routinely use one to vent most F#s as well… again, as convenient contextually. I find short F to D slides awkward even with a sloped key - in fact I can only think of one context where I do that, where there is contextually no alternative, and I had to practice it quite a bit. I don’t think I ever do D to F save with the long F.
One probably could work out guiding principles for when to use which, but I think common sense is adequate - just decide you’re going to make proper use of them and get on with it. Mark up some chosen tunes’ notations for practice if it helps.
Another one of those F’ing threads? 
Not sure if this helps, but there’s also half-holing or complete abstinence. It’s a problem note, to be sure.
Hmmm … half-holing’s risky, to say the least. I suppose there’s always cross-fingering. But I’m not sure that would give you a proper F.
The OP Q was about using the F keys, not about playing F nats as such. Generally English C19th and derived there-from flutes don’t have a usable cross-fingered F nat. Half-holed F nats can be ok on whistle (where there’s no alternative) for the odd accidental, but aren’t really viable for playing in flat key signatures/tunes with lots of 'em. Probably ditto on flutes lacking F keys, but if you’ve got 'em…
Trust you to drag up the tone. 
You accusing me of being sharp? 
(And we definitely won’t mention big feet…)
Denny,
Many thanks for your insight. That is exactly the problem I have. The key catches my finger on travelling back up to the F natural. It hadn;t occurred to me to check a simple system flute for the R3 key travel angle before. I will have to check if my flute metal key will bend down.
Thank you everyone for the spread of replies. Accidentally (baroque traverso player)
I use the F nat cross-fingering accidentally. It works without sounding smothered, but is not as clear and equal volume when vented properly - naturally.
I usually use the left (long one), especially if going
to/from D. The left is also nice for cranning the
low D.
I posted these pictures of my two R&Rs’ short F keys in another thread (?the one Denny linked?) fairly recently. I set them like this. It isn’t hard to do on this type of key, though bear in mind that it will twist the seating of the spring and you will need to check it’s action, re-set it at the right rotation on its rivet to move freely in the channel and maybe put a counter-twist in it as otherwise in use it may tend to creep across the channel until it catches on the wall (or, on a pin-mounted flute, the free, working end may “walk” out of position). It can be a little harder or even impossible to do with a nach-Meyer German or a French style key as they tend to be chunkier and rather different in profile, but most English style keys are quite amenable to being set thus.
However, even with a helpfully angled short F, I would still advocate making good use of the long F.
