When folks get fluent on a keyed simple
system flute, is it hard to play an unkeyed one?
Is switching back and forth difficult?
Does one tend to play just the
keyed flute?
I’m especially interested in the C natural
key, which I suppose one uses a lot. Best
By ‘keyed’ do you mean a fully keyed simple system flute? If so then I wouldn’t say it’s ‘hard’ to swap between the two.
I don’t find the swap causes any difficulties (assuming that we are talking about playing tunes that don’t need the keyed chromatic notes besides the common C natural cross fingering in this instance).
I have a 8 keyed concert pitch flute and an F flute with just the G sharp key that I got Hammy to make me recently (and other keyless bits and peices besides) . I find myself unconciously reaching for the missing C natural key coming down the scale in runs on the F model sometimes, but that inclination passes with a bit of warming up to that particular flute’s key arrangement.
Of course this C natural key malarky is just an occasional habit picked up over time on the keyed instrument, I am just as likely to play the cross fingering as well.
Regards, Harry.
Going back and forth between keyed and unkeyed flutes is not an issue for me anyway, and I suspect not for most other flute players. I can’t think of any flute player I know who uses the C natural key for dance tunes, as the OXX OOO fingering is quite accessible for rapid fingering passages, and if there are tuning issues with that fingering (as is the case on some flutes) the note goes by so quickly that it’s not really noticeable. The C natural key is nice for use in slower music (e.g. airs), and also for the high C natural which shows up occasionally in dance tunes. Trim the Velvet is one example that comes to mind there. But usually the high C is at the top of the passage, so it’s easy to get the key in on that.
The big problem (for me, anyway) with going to a keyless flute from a keyed flute is the loss of ability to play tunes that use the long and short F keys, since I never was able to get a decent half hole for F when I had nothing but a keyless flute. But there are tons of tunes that don’t require those keys, so if I get my hands on a keyless flute (like the other day when I got to play Josh “drummerboy” Dukes’s cool new boxwood Olwell) I just play the tunes that don’t need the keys…
I would certainly use it in a ‘dance’ tune context of times. For example in the opening bar of “Rakish Paddy” where you have those very dominant C naturals falling on the beat I like to be able to emphasis and hold them a bit, I find that the keyed note on flutes is generally stronger and more in tune and will take a bit more ‘pushing’ in an instance such as this.
Of course C natural keyed is not really much good if the next note you are playing is high D as it involves a big shift in finger positions (ie. B finger that is making the C natural in conjunction with the key now has to go up and the finger that is holding down the key has to let go and find it’s hole!.. awkward) but I would often find myself employing it coming down from high D to C natural to B in dance tunes, in this instance the C natural is produced by just fingering B and touching the C natural key with a finger that is now free, it has a nice fluid effect when practised.
The C natural cross fingering is more versatile overall though, the key shouldn’t be considered a short cut .
Regards, Harry.
Thanks to all. Yes, I’m going to get a six keyed
retrofit from Dave Copley.
I’m playing C natural mostly
oxoxxx, which I find more fluid,
less flopping around, and rather
looked forward to a key!
On the whistle I half-hole the
C natural, which helped my playing
considerably and I was hoping
for something as fluid from a key.
Anyhow it appears that switching
back and forth isn’t much of
a bother. Thanks
But Harry, don’t I recall from earlier conversations with you (on another forum maybe) that the music you play isn’t dance music? :->
Seriously, though, you’re right. The C natural key can come in handy in a lot of places. You know, I paid good money for mine and I barely even use it. I really ought to do something about that. Then I should probably start doing the same with the B flat and E flat keys I paid good money for as well…
Well, whatever blows your hair back!
But if you want to play ‘dance’ music up to speed I personally would recommend getting used to the OXX OOO C natural cross fingering sooner rather than later. You may find ‘half hole-ing’ or just keying that note cumbersome in the near future as you progress- especially on the flute.
If you play or can find the notes of the classic example “The Chicago Reel” ( 3rd bar!) then give it a go with half hole-ing and you’ll see what I mean. Although not the easiest immediate option the cross fingering makes a world of sense in the long run.
Regards, Harry.
In addition to the examples that Harry gives above, I would add that the Cnat key is great for CBA triplets, which could be used in places such as the very beginning of The Cup of Tea instead of just starting on the B.
The other important use for the long C key is in doing mobile phone imitations, a trick usually reserved for concertina players. Play a second-octave G, and then tighten your embouchure and give it more push until you hit the harmonic third-octave D. Then flutter the long Cnat key by rapidly alternating between the index and middle fingers of your right hand. Not too convincing, but worth a try.
Hence the ‘dance’ in inverted commas, hee hee. So, when you are not using the keys is the flute really ‘keyed’ ? 
H.
I take it that there is no really
workable way to half-hole the
C natural on a flute–I can do it
sometimes slowly, but not at
speed. Right?
Well, I do use the long and short F keys a good bit, and also the G# although not as much. So I guess you could say my flute is F’ed up. Just don’t tell Patrick Olwell I said that, okay? :->
You could get it to work in many instances and sometimes even to work to better effect than the cross fingering, it depends what the tune is doing and the note intervals. but it should not be seen as a whole alternative to what should be considered the ‘standard’ fingering, there are many instances in ‘dance’ tunes where this cross fingered option is simply the most common sense way to apprach the note. It’s really the best place to start in my opinion.
Regards, H.
Well, it’s like this…
In the first octave, cross fingering is much easier. I can half-hole the c-nat, but it’s not as clear, and hard for me to hit cleanly. In the second octave, half-holing is pretty much the only way, as I’ve never figured out how to cross finger the c-nat there.
On my keyed 19th century flute, the c-nat key is superior in quality in both octaves. It’s much more accurate, and much louder. Cross-fingering works in the first octave, and I use it a lot because it’s easier when moving fast, but it’s definitely “muddier”.
I can get a strong C natural in the second octave
by fingering 0x0xxx.
Try this cross- fingering for second octave C natural-
OXO OOO
As with most cross fingerings you might have to adjust your lip position or breath pressure slightly to get it in tune depending on the flute, but I have found it fairly consistent on old and new flutes alike. To get a feel for the tuning of it best go up the scale to it from high G.
Regards, Harry.
With regard to using the C nat. key in dance music–
I once met a very talented flute player in Dingle, Co. Kerry who had to open the C nat. key every time she played C natural in order to get it to sound decently in tune. This seemed like a bit of a chore to me but it didn’t bother her at all and it certainly didn’t detract at all from her fantastic playing. I seem to recall her flute was quite old, R&R-style, though I can’t remember the name stamped on it. Has anyone else come across old flutes with this sort of problem?
Brad’s mobile phone trick sounds like it would make a good warm-up exercise. Here in Japan, land of the keitai denwa (that’s “mobile phone” in Japanese), I doubt anyone would notice anything out of the ordinary…
More often what you see is people having to use the Cnat key to get the C-sharp to play in tune. This is especially true for Bb and C flutes, where the seventh tends to be very flat; opening the Cnat key helps bring it up to pitch.
OK, OXOXXX produces a more accurate, stronger tone
OXOOOO is faster/easier
It’s only recently that the very upper end of my second octave has been stable enough to worry about things like this. Thanks to you both. 
I’m training myself to do
oxoxxx much of the time.
The right hand makes it more difficult,
as you say, and I figure I can get it
with practice. It’s actually elegant
at speed, as I see it anyway.
Also it simplifies C nat to high D.
What bothers me about oxxooo is
that my hand is flopping around on transients
(espeically B to C natural and back),
though the note played that way is
a bit more true and I use it sometimes
when it fits the fingering.
I’m hoping it will all pay off
in the future. Or maybe I’m just
making life difficult for myself! Best
In my meager experience, I find that the best crossfingering for Cnat depends on the flute. What I’ve noticed is that oxxooo is just dandy on Pratten-based designs, but is definitely weaker, though acceptable, on Rudall-Rose, where oxoxxx is very clear and strong. I’m dealing with this lately as I now am playing an M&E Rudall-Rose six key flute while my Pratten-style Williams is undergoing repairs.
With any luck and some determined application, I’ll end up more dextrous some day.