Mobile phone isn’t long enough to take the whole lot of it sorry, and I’ve run out of phone memory.
It is an Irish flute - 26 1/2 inch long (about 66cm) with 2x F keys (long + short); Eb key; closed G sharp key and this footjoint. I’m guessing that the footjoint is a C foot joint, right?
Would that explain the length of the flute - maybe it plays old pitch.
More importantly - I was fascinated by that articulated foot joint key. If you look closely - it is actually hinged, or anchored somehow, so that the joint bends, to flex the key open and closed.
Unfortunately there is no manufacturer’s name anywhere on the flute. It has a metal lined head. No markings under the keys at all. This is the only distinctive thing about it that I can recognise - the keywork.
Is this a common style? Can anyone offer, how old the flute might be, or who its maker might be? It comes from an antique shop and it well within reasonable to fix up the pads and hinges and tenons, but the pitch (not that I mind) might be an issue.
This is quite uncommon, but not particularly rare.
Form that picture it looks like a simple system instrument, with the fingering just like our “irish” flutes, but with keys covering the main holes. It looks conical also, but I can’t be sure from the picture.
This kind of foot joint is not uncommon.
I’d say second half of 19th century.
About the lenght, is might be playable at modern pitch. What you should look for is the sounding length, from the centre of the blow hole to the end of the flute, with the tuning slide closed. If the flute is conical, a sounding length of 580mm is usually (but not always) fine, even if it would be better if it was longer.
Never rains… Yeah, not an “Irish” flute at all, James, any more than a French 5-key or an English 8-key C19th simple system flute is “Irish”. The “grasshopper” keys on the foot are also the pre-rod-axle norm. (Go check out the Flute Pictures Sticky!) From the bit you’ve shot, it looks to be a good quality flute, and, seemingly, conoid as Lorenzo says. At a guess it will be based on one of the later versions of Siccama’s or Pratten’s ideas “improving” the simple system. Lorenzo’s right about the pitch issue too - get a tape-measure to it if you can: if the sounding length is between 570-580mm, it has a cylindrical head, a tuning slide and a tapering body, it’ll almost certainly be playable at A=440. Shorter than 570mm and it’ll be meant for old English high Pitch - which is the most probable situation. If it has a cylindrical body, it needs a sounding length of c600mm to be usable at 440; a SL of c580mm will make it definitely HP. Even if HP and whatever bore it has, if it is in good condition, just needing an overhaul but no major surgery, then if the price is reasonable (under £100), it could be a fun addition to a collection. However, if it is playable at 440, it still won’t be worth much (max £200 even in pristine, play-ready condition) - there is little-to-no demand for this type of flute among modern players for trad music and, unless it’s an example of unusual special interest (for a stamp/maker or unique mechanical feature), collectors won’t be much interested either as these things are pretty common. (See also the other thread Lorenzo linked for a relevant post I’ve made there.)
Sometime in the last year there was a thread with a photo of a Metzler (was said to be Boehm I think) with keys just like that. Metzler Siccama is the same but with just the posts and keys for Fnat and ‘the E hole’. Be careful not to hold the foot keys closed while removing the foot, they may foul the bottom post.
Reading the links about the Siccama story (and Rockstro’s antagonism! I have a Rockstro flute funny enough, which is the same 580mm sounding length) - I’m curious about the tonal differences. But the fingering system is quite something … it would take some getting used to for me.
I love the elegance of the foot joint - as the pads are all shot, it would be quite some restoration work. Any idea how a flute of this age and calibre would sound compared to a Rudall Carte? I notice its embouchure is more elliptical than the squatter Rudall Carte style embouchure on their wooden flutes.
I think it is cylindrical (high pitched) - the optical illusion from the mobile phone pic makes it look conoid only. Tapering head, with body swell, but 90mm consistently around the bore of the different body and foot joints.
I’ve found one pad (which works!) and adhered it to the top key. I get a sweet tone out of it. Not as sweet as the Rudall Carte tone though. It’s definitely not play ready. It’s worse than the first antique flute I picked up.
Some people bring in stray dogs. I’m doing the same with antique flutes. They’re probably not economical, but someone’s got to rescue it, right?!
Thanks for the advice David.
I’m confused about the simple system keys - say for example, a dedicated 2x F nat; 1x Eb; 1x Gsharp and the foot joint.
What happens to the tonal steps if you open the F nat key for any note, other than F? Will that mess things up, just like using a Gsharp key on a Boehm flute - which can only be used for the G sharp key?
I’m not into collecting - but if it sounds great, I might feel like giving it a restoration attempt. It would be nice to restain the wood all the same colour, but the blocks for the keys look complicated - maybe difficult to reassemble. I’ll ask the seller tomorrow.
Thanks everyone.
PS - KKrell - sorry I cross-posted. Yes - I’ll try that tomorrow. I need to empty my mobile phone images so I can get some more space. I don’t think it’s worth that much - I just like fancy keywork! It’s more just for the fun of playing than anything…
Had a Hawkes Siccama in the shop a few months back with a similar footjoint. Even the keys looked exactly the same. I also had a quite similar flute in the shop a while back, but with a “german” footjoint. It was a cylindrical one and was of exceptionally bad quality. Your looks quite nice. It’s one of many derivations of the “old system” flute. Nothing too common to find, but not too sought after neither.
To find out if it’s a conical or cylindrical bore, measure the bore diameter at end of footjoint: about 19mm = cylindrical, 10-15mm = conical.
You mentioned a Rudall Carte flute you have a few times. What exactly is it?
Oops. What was so bad about the sound quality of it?
This one has dead pads completely no pads - so I can just about get it to sound one or two notes. Not a great way to work out if it’s going to sound good or not.
This one is definitely cylindrical bore.
Is it a pain to learn how to play it?
Here’s the Rudall Carte I have:
I posted a sound clip of it - I has an eery haunting leaky tone. I hope when it’s fixed, I get it back with an eery haunting tone, rather than a leaky tone. It’s ebonite too - no cracks either. Gorgeous instrument.
