I have only been to two or three and have never heard anyone sing, even to tunes that I know words to. Is this tradition, fear of having two people argue which version to sing, or something else.
On the one hand, having instruments only practice seems to provide a barrier to those that don’t know any thing about the music, (although I have seen spoons used in one about two years ago). This can be a good thing as makes sure that people have an investment in the music and prevents having to eject the people that wonder in without a clue.
On the other hand I have been to bars / events where tradition had a song that was sung and was a great part of the experience. It amazed me when I hung out with some Georgian rugby teams that gathered after a game to sing songs that they all knew.
I’ve been to “singing sessions” in the states and they were ..interesting. A circle of people (about half a dozen) who had obviously been doing this for a while, and one or two newbies like myself, who had brought instruments just in case. We went round the circle and everyone had a turn - they could choose a song for everyone to sing, ask someone else to sing a song, or choose a song to solo. Since I knew no songs, I played my whistle and they enjoyed it. The other newbie, a fiddler, did the same. I only went to that session two times or so.
Another variety of ‘singing at sessions’ is a house session, where most people know each other. The songs I encountered here were typically accompanied. My friend Steph sang to her friend Jon’s guitar accompaniment, and my friend Tom has sung many a song or ballad, often accompanying himself on guitar, and others have felt free to join in.
At a pub in Donegal, Ireland, there was a small session going on, about four people, and it got interrupted so a lady could sing. I don’t know if she was local or not, but she was standing over at the bar, not by the musicians. Everyone clapped afterward but the song was slow and went on forever, and I think the session mood was kind of lost after that.
For me, if there’s singing at a session, I’d prefer it to be “not slow” and tell a story. A faster tongue-twisting type that others play along to is great, unless if you’re playing whistle and trying not to laugh.
It’s certainly done at the Newmarket on Tuesdays. One of the sets has ‘Donkey Riding’ as it’s final tune so Pat always sings it. Everyone else either keeps playing for the chorus or joins in singing it. When Donal turned up this week after a long absence we knew we’d play ‘Slieve Na Mban’ because he can’t resist singing it.
Which is very helpful, having each on sing in their turn. Imagine the cacaphony if all were to sing their own song at once. “ByalonelyprisonStormochroilandladytoldmememoneywasweebirdsallsinging…”
Most of the sessions I’ve been to have been “singing not encouaraged” types.
I think this is because when a tune is played, the expectation is that everyone can play it (provided they know it)..but when a song is sung, a lot of musicians tend to be just sitting there. I can’t say for sure if that’s the reasoning, but that’s my guess based upon the body language I’ve seen when the occaisonal song is sung.
I myself don’t mind the occaisional song. I was introduced to the deliciously naughty Widow and the Devil (by Mick Ryan) that way.
Ideally yes. My preference is for a song for every 2 sets of tunes. Tunes all the time without a break for a song or two gets very tedious. Also it lets the musicians get a drink in.
Our local sessions in S.F. are almost all music, but often with 1-3 songs thrown in per night. I enjoy hearing a song every now and then, but it’s kind of boring for the musicians to have a LOT of songs, casuse we wanna play tunes!
We have people sing at our session occasionally. I enjoy it, especially if I can join in! One night we ended up with a bunch of the instrumentalists (btw, singers are musicians too!) picking up the tune and playing along, while a couple of us picked out a complementary vocal harmony…it was magic!
This is interesting. In the case of Bluegrass, singing is primary. I find endless fiddle tune/banjo tune jams incredibly boring, even when I can play all the tunes. Of course, with Bluegrass, singing doesn’t mean that the instrumentalists don’t get to play, since most songs have instrumental breaks.
In fact, at a jam I went to last month, there were quite a few pickers, so instead of a single break between each verse-chorus, as would happen with a band, there were often two or three, or even more. Generally the singer would nod to various folks to take a break, early enough so that they could refuse if they didn’t feel comfortable.
Of course, Bluegrass is pretty jazzy and heavily harmonized compared to ITM, but I would think that some variety of this approach could make singing more palatable to the other musicians.
I’m going to have to make a Dallas session before long, so that I can see what the real thing is like (as opposed to the ones that exist in my imagination).
How were things done in Ireland before everything moved to more formal sessions in the pubs?
My Dad plays old-time American fiddle music (similar to bluegrass, for those who don’t know), and the sessions in that genre are very different. The musicians will play the same tune many many times, (it’s like a zen thing) and I could see how that kind of thing could get boring.
In Irish sessions, though, you switch tunes often, usually after 3 times through around here, and it keeps you on your toes so it doesn’t get boring for the musicians.
For myself, though, I’d much rather be playing than singing or just listening…I am just like that.
I sing at sessions all the time - usually something like “MacDougal’s Pub” or “Seamus O’Malley’s Lament”. Fun stuff. Lots of people with really good voices are too shy to just stand up and do it. There are a few, like Aderyn_du who have voices that are wondrous to behold, and some like John Mc… (oh, no, not going there…) and myself, who are better silenced with a large pillow held over the face for several minutes…
Personally, I like hearing the odd song or two at session. Or not-so-odd, even.
Cheers,
Bill Whedon
Serpent Music
Singing is inclusive, instrumental-only is exclusive. If all you want is to be around other instrumentalists, why bother going to a pub? There are, presumably, people there who have come to listen, otherwise the pub owner is not likely to stay in business. Having led many sing-alongs in school assemblies and such, I can tell you that people will say that they had more FUN by the end of the night if you gave them a chance to interact with the musicians.
This is what bugs me about the American approach towards IRTRAD. It’s yet another thing to be competitive and hierarchal about. How one can study the hell out of IRTRAD, learn Gaelic, go to workshops, then turn your back on the Irish tradition of “let’s have a song now” is beyond me .
I haven’t ever been to Ireland, but at every event in which Irish people were present, like weddings, parties, etc., there has ALWAYS been singing. God bless ‘em, I say, and I wish Americans weren’t so reserved about singin’ and dancin.’ It fits into the Weekender’s crackpot theory about the victorious American culture, Protestant reserve and competitive spirit to a fault. Two cultures fit largely into my musical life, Celtic and Ibero-Celtic, and both feature unabashed singing and dancing. It’s true that the Irish got more technical with their folk playing, with the music/dance instructor tradition of the 18th century and All-Ireland things, but the point remains that these cultures think its “okay” for everybody, especially MEN, to sing and dance.
Short bilious rant over by a very reluctant dancer and so-so singer.
Maybe it’s time here to shatter Weekender’s illusion that Irish traditional singing is about singalong. The only ‘singalongs’ i have ever encountered were put in place for american tourists to bawl out the Forty Shades of green Molly Malone, the Fields of Athenry and a misguided selection of rebelsongs.
For years I played in a session that had a perfect integration between music, dance and song, each after all part of the same thing. After playing music for a while usually singers would be called upon to sing a few lines. this is often the way, it part of the social activity of which the music is part.
I too have the experience that singers and dancers are asked to contribute during ITM sessions. The key word is “asked”. We usually know who who can pull it off. The last time someone sang (after asking if it was all right if she could do so–how could we say no, after all?) at a session I was at, it was some song about whiskey and wasn’t trad in the least, but some snappy, bluesy piece. Nicely done, but it put a pall on things when it was over. The rest of us weren’t there for that sort of thing.
I don’t think you shattered any such thing. You somewhat reinforced my point with your description of an “integration of music, dance and song” rather than a group of people with heads bent, intent on proving how many session tunes they have under their belt, grimacing while the mandatory song is sung because they can’t wait to get back to the REAL music.
But as for a night out, I do maintain that letting the audience sing along by doing a song with a chorus adds to the fun, that’s all. But that’s just my American misconception, obviously. And the Irish folks I have met and sung with are not authentic Irish, like you. Like the other Weekender’s son’s inlaws, from Galway, who came over to NY for the wedding and sang for over two hours without repeatin’ a tune. Shay Black, Mary’s brother, runs a session here and they always go round the room askin’ each to do a song. I guess that’s not the perfect integration of your sessions, tho. Too bad for them. They just don’t do it right.
And no, I wouldn’t expect a blaring singalong with a sean-nos solo or sumthin. Only an ugly American would do somethin’ like that. But it takes a crabby Dutchman to point it out.
I see your point Weekender, and I’m certainly not against singing.
At the sessions I go to, though, it’s the complete opposite as far as the musicians go: the singing is usually solos, exclusive of us, while the playing is inclusive.
That’s why I prefer more tunes; because when there’s a song I don’t get to join in.
Gotcha, Justine, I see what you mean. It IS the opposite for many…
My point, obviously poorly made, is that to exclude singing and vocal music from a celebration of Irish music seems to miss a lot, that’s all.
Spent too many years around instrumentalists who shunned singing. I think you miss out of a very common and happy human experience in so doing. But I am gettin’ old and sentimental. I was once young and hungry to be technically great and didn’t have time for such things.
I also think that Americans and other non-Irish get in a quandary about singing Irish tunes. We probably don’t know the irish language, don’t have accents yet want to emulate what we hear from the musicians but don’t know how to go about it.. It’s safer to not even try, but as I said, I think you miss something there, especially if you find yourself surrounded by Irish who are singing, as has happened to me on multiple occassions. I wanted to be a part of that too. Frankly, they cared a lot less about a whistle solo than remembering the next verse…
I was gonna PS the following anyway:
Somehow, somewhere in Ireland, a tremendous amount of singing is being done as evidenced by the incredible vocal talent and many recordings that come from there. Maybe it’s not from “sessions” per se and is very limited as PL pointed out in his experience.
I enjoy the Russell family album because it has both.
I just want to get this straight. Traditionally in Ireland, people would play musical instruments together but when they sang it would be unaccompanied and one person at a time. Is that correct?
