On the microphone thread, I thought Wizzer posed an interesting and worthwhile question, so I’m posing the same question in a new topic in hopes that more replies will be netted.
Given that mini-discs can be pricey, what would a good set-up be (for recording sessions and the like), for, say, no more than $100-$150? Ideas?
Micah
Do you want to record digitally, ie minidisc or mp3, or on a cassette tape? That;s a pretty important first step as it will determine quality, ease of access, and price range.
I would first examine my options for recording straight to computer.
I do a lot of voiceover recording and editing here at work (oops–well, I have no assigned tasks right now). We have a sound booth, a very decent mic, a mixer, and record/edit software (we’re using Sonic Foundry’s SoundForge 6).
Bear in mind I only need one track, mono, and I’m not entirely sure we need the mixer, but the setup can be expanded.
Anyway, it’s possible you can record SOMETHING with whatever you have on hand right now.
M
The recording and ease of use not the avaiability to spend should be the criteria.
I am leaning toward a good cassette recorder ( to replace the one I dropped) with a decent mike.
Several reasons.
If I drop it or loose it the investment is not so large. I can go diretly from a headphone jack into a sound card and digitize the tune that way. I do not spend hours wearing head phones so the mini disk or smart card options are of limited value.
The only feature that might sell me on the new teck would be if I was able to slow a tune down while playing.
The next option to a minicassette recorder is a 4 channel cassette sound recoder offered in some of the music outlets. It not so portalbe but still a lot cheaper than a mini disk and posibly better for recording sessions with 4 mikes to help solve the placement problem.
This tech has become very cheap since the world went digital.
What do you think.
Digital
If you do insist upon going digital here is another option at $219.00 plus the cost of a mike. It uses smart media card and is 4 channels. The controls look easy enough but in my experience too many options usually means these things have a steep learning curve that takes many hours. I think this is why we have hobbies, professionals and us neophytes.
http://www.music123.com/Item/?itemno=26895
This is just one of several site I saw it on at this price.
Causion it does not fit in your pocket!
[ This Message was edited by: Wizzer on 2002-12-06 10:44 ]
No no no no no no no! Microcassettes are for dictation and only dictation, unless you want to find out why they invented the word “wow” as an audio concept. You will hear half-holing on notes you didn’t even finger. This goes for the expensive ones, too, just less so.
Most cheap portable cassette recorders are cheap because they stink. If you are buying new, spend AT LEAST $50, and look for the largest capstan you can find. I can’t think of any brands, but try very hard to find something that records on CR02 (chrome) tape. From $40 - $200 the quality of your microphone will be more important than any specific recorder. Use quality tape and keep the heads and capstan CLEAN.
The Marantz portables are terrific, but they run $200-400 new. Well worth it, though. At that price, though, the Minidiscs shine - re-useable discs, instant locating, longer recording, editing, titling, etc. I still say the Sharp is a Mac and the Sony is a PC.
Used cassette recorders are a terrific bargain. I’m always running into old home units with Dolby and two microphone inputs for $10-25 at thrift shops. You have to run home, get a decent sounding tape and some headphones to check out the mechanism. If it plays OK it will record OK (usually). And college kids usually get rid of portable recorders when they graduate.
Also, Circuit City is always selling last year’s Minidisc or this year’s “open-box” models at good prices. If you are nice, your store guy can see on a computer what all the other CCs have, too!
Radio Shack sells “memory stick” recorders - no moving parts and a built-in mic. I’ve never tried one, but they are good about letting you return things with all the packaging. According to the catalogue (page 117) they have three models that plug into a computer through the USB port. They all take external mics, too.
They seem to be your best bet, if computer access is important.
Also with cassettes, as I learned years ago, if you record music and play it many times, the tape stretches, and you will no longer be in the tuning you started with. Makes playing along quite difficult.
Elliot
Have you taken a look at the Zoom MRS 4 MultiTrak Digital Recording Studio
uning smart card tech rather than a mini disk.
“The MRS-4 ZOOM 4 Track Digital Recorder Is Digital Recording Made Easy. Just Turn The Power On and Start Recording! The MRS-4 Saves Recorded Audio On a Supplied 32 MB Smart Media Card and Up To Two Tracks With 2-Band EQ Can Be Recorded Simultaneously. Features Internal Effects, Punch-In, Bounce, 50 Marker Points, Send/Return & Mixdown Effects. The MRS-4 Runs on 4 “AA” Batteries Or An Optional AC Power Supply”
The instructions say that there is about 17 minutes recording time on the 32mg card Granted you will need to burn it the tunes to a cd but this seems to be a better concept for sessions when we are looking to pick up a tune.
I think I like the idea of smart media and you can find 128 mg on sale for $40.00 so the memory is cheap enough. Especialy if you have other devices using this type of memory.
This is rasing the cost of this type of unit
Recorder $219.00
mike estimate 50.00
smart media 128 40.00
head phones 50.00
It seems we are up to a priced of a good minidisk.
What do you think:
[ This Message was edited by: Wizzer on 2002-12-07 09:11 ]
Yeah, and the Toneworks Pandora PXB4, the Boss BR532 and theTascam PocketStudio 5.
All $399. And the Zoom MRS4 is only $229 and the Zoom PS02 Palmtop Studio is $299. I’ve seen the Korg PXR4, and I believe it only takes one microphone. Just reading the catalogues, the Boss and the Zooms look great!
BTW: Yamaha makes some good inexpensive headphones. American Musical Supply catalogue, pg.33.
Just found a review - the Tascam Pocket Studio only takes one mic, too.
Poor Michah!
I’ve just been re-reading this thread.
Have we techie-types confused you altogether?
Here it is - simple, cheap, foolproof:
1} Go to Radio Shack.
2} Buy the CTR-121 (14-1128) desktop cassette recorder with cue/review and tape counter (you need these). $50. (Cheaper ones won’t play loud enough when you are playing along at home.)
3} Buy the omnidirectional electret mic (33-3014) for $30. Make them give you a free battery. Try out the $10 mic (33-2001) in the store if you are REALLY low on funds.
4} See if they won’t throw in the 274-372 right-angle adapter (which reduces strain on the recorder’s input jack). Not vital, but helpful.
5} Buy some Type 1 tapes. High bias Type 2 tapes won’t work in your portable. Spend extra for XR-Premium if you possibly can, though the LNs are good enough. Avoid C-120 tapes. Maybe they’ll give you some, if you’re nice.
6} Buy the “deck cleaner and restorer” (44-1116) for $5. Use it occasionally.
7} Go to sessions. Don’t be afraid to walk up to someone during a break and ask them to record “that” tune for you, slowly.
8} Keep notes on what tune is where on what tape (that’s why you wanted a tape counter).
9} When you are rich, copy the best stuff into a computer, or whatever they’ve got when you are rich. In the meantime, you’re out of the store for $70-100. It’s all time-tested, dependable technology, and it’s even returnable.
Whistle on and on. 
MICAH
MICAH
It seems as If Elliot in a some what arrogant way is telling you that there is nothing within the $150.00 price range that that will do a digital recording.
When I set the $150.00 price range I thought it was a bit much to spend for this purpose maybe the high end for someone to spend money on picking up tunes. That being said the cassette and recorder are perfectly adequate for our needs. Combine them with a computer and the Transcribe or slow downer program then we have everything we need to learn tunes.
I got the jist from the beginning that this thread was to help those lurkers and ourselves become a little better educated to the options available with in the price range specified.
Just a few have responded which tell you the level of technical expertise on the board is limited and that means that the KISS method should be employed.
(For anyone not familiar with the KISS method. It is an acronym for “Keep It Simple Stupid”.)
I much prefer “authoritative” to “arrogant”,
mostly 'cause I’ve been doing recordings for 30 years (want to hear Bill Ochs learning uillean pipes in 1969?), and I’ve been a radio reporter (want to hear Gov. Clinton talk about broccoli and farm price supports?). I’ve used all this stuff and know which is wheat and which is chaff.
Unless you buy used equipment, you can’t get better, cheaper or simpler at that price. But that’s just MY opinion. Anybody else know of good audio bargains for Micah? Anything to stay away from? Anyone tried the new “stick” recorders? Learned any good tunes lately?
OK I grant you athorative. But us old fogies have to remember those youngins who are usually not so monetaily well endowed. Or the poor mother who has just spent for the second time a recorder for the abnesnt minded tean who has somehow misplaced it.
Or for the old fogies who have a senior moment and do the same.
Gosh - why don’t you just buy a nice little Sharp mini-disc recorder (they record MUCH, MUCH better than the Sony models - I know, I have both - though the Sharp model is an old, old, old unit) like those here - http://www.minidisco.com , and a decent little mic?
If you’re recording sessions and the like there’s no better way to go.
Chris
[ This Message was edited by: ChrisLaughlin on 2002-12-09 23:21 ]
I too, am interested in finding some software that will allow me to make recordings via my computer and burn them to a cd.
Is there anything out there that is REALLY inexpensive and simple to use. It doesn’t have to be sophisticated…just a step up or two from a portable casette recorder w/ internal mic.
Thanks for the great suggestions on portable equipment, Elliot and Wizzer.
I’m not looking for anything high-end…really just a simple portable set-up that allows me to pick up some tunes. I’ve thought about MD, but it’s a bit too pricy at the moment…analog’s just fine for now.
Micah
Micah, the Korg PXR4 is hands down the way to go for low budget 4 track recording. The only draw back is the SM card can be pricey and if recording long sessions is your thing, you would do fine with a minidisc recorder. That is, if you all you wish to do is capture raw live recordings.
Tascam’s Pocket 4 track has a great concept behind it, with the ability to load up your songs on the web via MP3. It’s a hundred bucks more and is larger then the Korg.
Last month I went into buy a Korg and was shocked by the size. To make a long story short, I walked out with a Yamaha AW16G. This machine is an amazing deal for what you get.
Best of luck.
[ This Message was edited by: jackorion on 2002-12-09 21:15 ]
I finally got to look at the manual for the Zoom MRS-4. It DOES take two mics, has a limiter, and no moving parts (except for the faders). 9 virtual tracks, cut and paste, 4-channel mixdown. It looks to be a good basic digital recording studio in a box. It only comes with enough memory to record 17 minutes (34 minutes of “low-fi”). A bit of overkill for a session recorder, but …