HELP New Flute Choice

Hi All

After much deliberation I have narrowed my new flute down to an Olwell Keyless Blackwood Pratten or Nicholson OR a Martin Doyle Traditional Keyless Blackwood with slide.

I will probably have to order without the benefit of playing any of these flutes and I am trying to determine the hole sizes and spacing. Do any of you have the measurements for these flutes???

I will also be posting another topic to sell my M&E 8 Keyed Ebonite to help pay for the new one!.

All help comments appreciated.

Regards

Ade

Hi Ade, Ive had similar problems deciding but ended up ordering the Pratten..Have you tried contacting Patrick directly is really helpful over the phone. I already had a Hamilton keyless so large tone holes to start with and I fancy that sound, although I might still consider the Nicholson!!
Patrick sent me the Pratten tone hole sizings as follows(#1 to the bottom 8.0 9.5 7.6 9.7 10.8 6.6 in mm dia) although Patrick had’nt included that bit of info but worked it out from the Hammy tone holes, not able to tell you about spacing but I hope this helps
cheers for now Nick
PS If you contact Patrick(Olwell..!) he will send you descriptions etc of his flutes which I found useful

olwell, among the rest you mentioned.

Go with the Nicholson, unless you’ve got a compelling reason to want an elephant gun of a flute, plus the ‘shoulder’ to support it. Cheers,

Rob

HI

Thanks for comments.

Quite a few seem to offer similar advice re the Olwell Nicholson over the Pratten. Do you have any views about the Martin Doyle Traditional flute compared to the Nicholson (or indeed to my current McGee 5088). Martin Doyles flutes have a much shorter waiting period. Also, I do not want a flute too similar to my 5088, I would like something to contrast, probably more powerful.

Cheers

Ade

Go for the Pratten model. It’s a nice flute and nothing to be afraid of. It doesn’t take that much air I find. You’ll soon grow into it if you’re serious about flute playing and practice. It can be played softly, or you can make it bellow and rattle the windows. It’s up to you. Olwell’s waiting list isn’t that long and in the meantime you can practice your technique and learn more tunes. All the best

Rob gave excellent advice in your other thread. I’d say something similar, namely that it’s easy to get a “pretty good” tone on an Olwell, so a lot of people stop working on their embouchure, and never find the focused and precisely aimed airstream needed to make the flute really sing. It’s just like Rob says, most Olwell’s in the wild have owners who stopped too soon.

That said, I also agree with Steampacket that if you DO keep trying to improve your embouchure, then there is no reason to fear a Pratten. It’s common for people to think that flutes have to be “filled” with air, and therefore that larger diameter flutes take more air. The flute is always full of air. What you are doing by blowing against the blowing edge is getting the air in the flute vibrating. Bigger diameter flutes contain more air, so you need a better focused embouchure/more breath support/more accurate aiming of the airstream/and a shorter airstream to get all the air column molecules vibrating and thus realize the full potential of a Pratten. If you have a good embouchure, a Pratten doesn’t take more air.

As an aside, one thing (among many of course) that I don’t understand is that hole size is often thought to be correlated to responsiveness, or crisper ornaments (smaller is more responsive, and bigger is less). All things being equal, this should be true, and I’ve certainly played flutes that support this generalization. Nevertheless, some large holed flutes are very responsive (eg Olwells), and some aren’t. I think there must be something about the care in finishing the tone holes that matters. In any case, I wouldn’t be afraid of Prattens because they “aren’t responsive”.

In the end, it’s about the sound you want and the time you are willing to put in. If I could do one thing differently than I did in 4.5 years of learning the flute it would be not trying so many flutes. It would have been better to spend a year or two on any decent flute, while I was waiting for a flute from a highly regarded maker, and then spend the rest of my life trying to get really good on that flute. So I think that you are on the right track. Order an Olwell. You can’t go wrong, regardless of the model you get. And if you find the model you order isn’t what you want, Pat will exchange it for a different model, so really, there is no risk.

None of what I said should be taken as an argument against flutes made by others. If you like the sound of the Olwell, go for it. If you find yourself captivated by the sound of some other flute, go for that.

Cheers,
Hugh

So what do you get for the effort? More flexibility in pitch? More volume?

Not wanting to open a can of worms here, but: a tone with character. Don’t take me wrong here please, Olwells are great flutes. I tried a bunch of them and they’re really good. But, to my ears, they lack that certain ‘oomph’ I want in a flute. I don’t find their embouchure easier than any other flute of a “top maker” I tried (and, except Murray, I tried most of them), but some factor of their tone annoys me after a short time of playing. Might be just me. And it’s just my opinion.

The Doyle is very good. The Olwells are better. Both Pratten and Nicholson powerful flutes.

To my ear, you get projection (the ability for the sound to cut through other instruments), and you get harmonics/richer sound. I don’t have any measuring devices, and don’t understand exactly what features of an embouchure (mine or the flute’s) allow projection. What I do know is that there is an open , waffly, overtone free sound (like blowing in a bottle) that is bland, uninteresting, and disappears that when there is competition. When I look at the lips of the players, I see large openings, relaxed lips, and shallow breathing. When I look at the lips of those producing that interesting sound that I can hear in a session, I always see a small opening of the lips. Some can do it with relaxed lips, some do it with dimpled corners of the mouth, and some do it with a “tight” embouchure.

My feeling is that all the flutes I tried were capable of different sounds. Some provide a given sound more easily, or less easily. Naturally, I tend to think that flutes that suit my embouchure and easily produce the sound I am looking for (for me, that oboe sound) are “better” than flutes that less suit my embouchure, and that produce the sound I am looking for with difficulty. However, I view this as a problem for me, rather than for the flute. Regardless, as a lazy guy, I see no reason not to play something that gives me what I want more easily. Others have argued cogently for the virtues of flutes that are difficult, because there is more variation in there. Fair enough.

Hugh

Hey, they’re your ears. You gotta make 'em happy!



Rob

You all have interesting things to say Rob, Hugh, Gabriel, and I agree with what you’re saying. As flutefry said
My feeling is that all the flutes I tried were capable of different sounds. Some provide a given sound more easily, or less easily.”
I also think it’s up to you, the player, as to what sound you’ll achive or strive after. As has been mentioned before on this forum Kevin Crawford will sound like Keven Crawford on any flute. I’m still getting my chops together and I’ve been fortunate enough to have been able to acquire a few secondhand flutes by different makers these last few years. They are all great instruments, it’s me that has to practice and evolve in order to get the most out of any one of them.
Abe it’s up to you, I’d go for an Olwell Pratten or a Murray - why not get both!! :party:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1zjofaoJ4k