Hi.
Having taken up the flute , after 25 years of piping/ whistle playing , , I felt I would have an advantage ,( tunes , style etc ), and yes all that helps , but the one thing I didn’t bargain for , was the problem of embouchure. So I bought several tutor books and dvd´s , and found , that what to me is the most important thing about flute playing , Embouchure , is barely touched , and in the case of June Mccormac´s book ( which I think is very good for all other aspects of playing ) , the subject of embouchure is not even mentioned . Am I wrong to put so much emphases on embouchure. I found the help offered on this forum to be a lifesaver , especially the article on John Gunn , and the you tube embouchure master-class by James Galway , as-well as the posts about dark tone etc.
Ballygo
The flute embouchure simply is the most challenging aspect of flute playing, of all. In short, there are a number of things going on, all at once, which, basically, is the reason why virtually no flute tutor published within the past few hundred years has ever given any explicit embouchure instructions.
So, don’t feel as though you’re being left in the dark, as this is a challenge which all flute players must confront.
I’d say two things. First, get it to play, any way you can. Then, push it farther, and explore the possibilities. Eventually you’ll find the limits.
Let your ears be your guide.
However, should you have any particular question(s), just put them right here, please, but be prepared for a conversation!
Thank´s Cork , that´s all good to hear.
Because I play pipes , I naturally use the “pipers grip” , which is ok for me , except that when I come to play a tune , say a reel , then because of my finger ´s hopping off the flute I tend to loose the embouchure . It´s ok for practicing long note´s etc ,I wondered if this is a result of the grip , not being so secure as with classic grip , which i find impossible to master , especially the lack of flexibility of the top three fingers , compared to the pipers grip ?
Thomas
The subject of grip opens a can of worms, especially here, on the C&F board.
Some players here apparently have some background in piping and/or in whistle playing while using a piper’s grip, and have transferred their piping grip to the flute. There are also a larger number of well known ITM flute players who themselves use some form of piper’s grip. So, it’s understood that such a grip, or a modified version of same, could work.
Unfortunately, piper’s grip is not my strength, so I must defer to others, in that regard.
However, let me mention an alternative, which around here is commonly known as a “classical” grip, aka normal. While it might not work at all on pipes and whistles, it happens to be quite well suited to the transverse flute, especially in terms of supporting the flute, which brings us to the embouchure troubles you mentioned.
Assuming that you are a right handed player, the main difference is in the left hand, where the thumb need not be used, at all, and the flute is supported at the base of the LH index finger, aka L1. The primary benefit is in the way this grip helps to straighten the wrist of that hand, which in turn helps in finger articulation. A straight wrist, BTW, also helps to reduce the tendon stresses, there, which in turn helps to prevent injuries.
Try putting the LH fingers on the tone holes first, in a comfortable position, and then putting the flute at the base of your L1. Yes, the L1 finger indeed is bent, but with a bit of practice it can work well.
So, it looks as though I have become a salesman for “classical” grip, but I do so for a number of good reasons. In short, it works!
Good luck with it, Ballygo! It’s just a lot of time and sorting out. I’ve been at it for years (like, 35) and still hanker after other peoples’ tone and embouchure.
Anyway, I found this video helpful, too. It’s for classical flute but a good lip is a good lip.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=7HWWQpueRvY
OK, off to practice my pipes now. Sheesh. If you can play those things, you can get the flute. And the flute is a lot easier to get in tune! 
Ballygo,
Have you tried piper’s grip on the bottom only, and classic grip on top? When I first started to play, I was trying to play piper’s all around, because of my low whistle experience, and it was just too wobbly to keep a good embouchure, but as soon as I started with the classic grip on top, it steadied the flute right away, and I was able to play much longer (until my lips gave out).
At first, classic grip feels awkward, but if you are able to relax, and take most of the tension out of your fingers, they work much better over time as you become more used to it. Also using the right pinky to sabilize the flute when going up the scale will help too. Finding the right spot for your thumbs also helps. There are many ways to hold it, and some will suggest there is only one right way, but in reality, what works for you in the long run is most important. Experiment, and see what combination helps you the most, and go with it.
Sometimes it all seems impossible in the beginning, but then all of a sudden it starts to work, and keeps making you want to play more. And if you can keep reminding yourself to relax your fingers and lips too (to some extent), it will probably help a lot. Good luck!
Be well, Barry
A good lip is a good lip, indeed!
Here’s one which speaks more as an overview of sound production: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0XfoandDjk
I like her sense of humor, especially the part about how much air could be required.
Here’s a practical beginner’s, flute embouchure tutor: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Flute/Embouchure_and_Producing_Sound
Frankly, it’s a good place to begin.
Thanks guy´s , that´s all great advise , and I will sift through it soon. Yesterday I received Grey Larsson´s tutor for Flute and whistle . A really great effort I have to say . I already tried the normal grip as he suggests and straight away the embouchure felt much more stable. I am going to try to continue this way . I suppose the pipers grip for me ( having played pipes for 25 years) gave me the chance to get started without-out having to relearn anything ( as I hoped . But so far it is not helping with my tone production , so I guess I have to concede , and give the normal grip a chance. I just find it difficult to roll the B and the C this way , and it feels stiff , but I´ll give it a shot. Thank you for taking time to reply.
Ballygo
To be honest, holding a flute simply isn’t a “natural” thing to do. Yet, the “normal” grip is time tested, and proven. It works!
Feel free to modify the grip, to find what works best for you. Comfort and freedom of finger movement are important.
However, just as a flute embouchure could have its secrets, so too could the normal grip, where sometimes just a slight change of hand and/or finger positions could make a big difference, and please come back with any question(s) you might have.
Good luck!
Oh, and I’m SURE you know this … (it’s such a “duh” I can’t believe I’m saying it, but it happens to me 
, so …) … make sure you’re using accurate flute fingerings and not hybridized versions, at least to start out.
I’m finding I can get away with many piping fingerings on the whistle but the flute gets pretty wonky-sounding AND -playing when I try them there. I’ve been practicing my pipes a lot lately and when I picked up the flute for our first set in last night’s gig … YIKES! It was about halfway through Christmas Eve before I finally got my stupid right hand behaving properly.
Often where the chanter needs to be closed the flute needs to be vented – i.e., more open/“venting” fingering on the bottom hand – which makes for a cleaner, eaiser-to-produce tone, especially when your embouchure isn’t developed yet.
Ive been trying the Normal grip for a day now , and It´s coming slowly . The problem in , getting used to the fingertip´s while covering the holes. Also trying to ornament the B . C , etc is very awkward , but early day´s yet. I am really hoping I can do this , as I feel it will cut out a lot of bad habit´s.
B
:lol:
If anybody could figure out the “normal” grip in just one day, I’d be absolutely amazed!
While no two people could have exactly the same grip, in general there a number of things to consider, in getting the grip just right.
In essence, the grip must do two things, simultaneously, 1) support the flute, in a balanced way, and 2) allow the fingers to move freely.
The greater challenge is usually in getting the balance aspect worked out.
Please, keep us up to date with your progress, and let us know of any particular troubles you could be having.
Once you get the hang of it, however, the normal grip will make good sense, guaranteed!
long tones
then record yourself doing such…
then listen back, make corrections, and repeat…
…and then some!
best of luck
it’s funny because when I started six years ago I hadn’t played the pipes before but it just felt right for me to play the flute with the piper grip. The bigest problem I had was getting my left hand to close the holes completly on a consitant basis. Rob Greenway who was my first teacher at first talked to me about trying classical grip but then decided that it was working for me and essentialy that is what’s important. 
OK, I just gotta throw my 2 cents into the ring… Nobody has mentioned two of the most important things: use a mirror and record yourself. I’m relatively new myself (about 9 months) and the mirror helped me see that I was misaligned. The recorder (I use a Zoom H4) is indispensable in truly evaluating your sound.
Everything else (well most of it) above is still good, BTW…
Oh yeah, I use pipers’ grip on my big hole flute (Tipple) and “normal” with my others (McGee GLP and Aulos Baroque).
Oh yeah, one other weird-ish thing… I am a trumpet player who uses what’s called the “tongue-controlled embouchure” which is essentially a tongue-forward technique. It works superbly for the flute as well. Essentially, my tongue overlaps my bottom teeth and supports my lower lip. You can’t tell from “outside”, so don’t worry about looking weird!
Good luck!
Pat
EDIT: Oops, I see someone DID mention recording!
Plunk is that a natural trumpet?
…Plunkt…
refer to my post earlier… (record yourself)
both flutes that I play Hammy and Aebi both made superb allotments for my pipers grip and the way the G#/Bb/ and long F nat key.
Wow that normal grip is really hard. I have very little flexibility in my right index finger . When I switch to pipers grip( which is all too easy to do), all works well except that the embouchure slip´s , and the fluffy tone returns . I also find it harder to seal the first three holes right hand. I´ll keep going . I think it´s down to the holding of the flute now , and finding the right balance with the anchor point´s, which hopefully will free my fingers up a bit.
B
It’s likely that it could take some time for that index finger to get used to being so bent.
Of the three upper tone holes, try covering the lowest of them first, with your third finger, because that’s the finger which usually gets stretched most. After that, try covering the upper holes, in a way which allows you to comfortably cover all three holes. After that, try to find a comfortable way to place the flute against the base of the first finger, on the side of the finger and just above the lowest knuckle, and, at the same time, try to keep your wrist as straight as possible. That’s the basic formula, but feel free to experiment! After all, no two hands, and no two flutes, are quite the same, and it’s a matter of finding the positions which work best for you.