Well, it drops in pitch quite noticeably when I lean in on the bag. When I put it on the tuner, it’s almost peggs F natural.
Now I’ve read Pat Sky’s article on “Blowing your chanter in tune” so I know there’s that aspect to put into play here, and I seem to be able to get around this “sinking F” by simply applying less pressure on the bag. I was just wondering if this sinking Fsharp in the first octave like I described is normal or not…
Now in the Second octave, I have to lean in on the bag to bring my F# in tune otherwise it will come out FLAT.
FWIW, I am playing a Preshaw concert pitch chanter.
Hi there , I own a Preshaw half set and you have to lean in or ease off the bag a little bit. I found the same article extremely helpful as I always felt that the chanter was out of tune but in all essence it’s my lack of skills as a learner piper. You can always contact Martin via www.unionpipes.co.uk and ask his opinion, I always thought that my back d was a little sharp , I played in a group and they said the same thing. I spoke to Martin and he told me what to do and voila back d right on the button ! cheers Mei
On the other hand, unless you are a very talented piper, you should adjust your reeds to your preferences. Of course, there are some common techniques that must be learned; you cannot be an Union piper without learning to control the bag pressure to a certain level. But, if you have a good reed the pressure control should be applied as follows.
Thre are three groups of notes that should be in tune at the same pressure:
bottom D, E, F, G, A, B, C on the first octave
back D (1st octave), e, f, g on second octave
a, b on second octave
There may be slight variations, of course.
If anyone tries to convince you that you should apply more complex pressure control scheme, reject the idea.
A good reed should behave more or less as described above.
HTH, Miki
Well I feel my reed plays well enough, probably not perfect but pretty damn good considering - that is to say it has a nice tone, nice hard D’s, and I’m not struggling to keep the second octave going when I need to, but my reed seems a little more picky in order keep in tune as best as possible, I’m discovering that I need to be “all over” that bag with pressure control for best results with tuning - which is proving quite challenging, but it’s either that or sound out of tune which drives me nuts…
I think the most challenging ordeal with my reed is coming from Hard D to 1st octave F since my hard D requires a bit more pressure to play then my F as I found out… Now Soft D will play just fine and right on with the same pressure as my F, but who wants to do that with hard D’s like mine. Plus it’s flat, unless I take the little gizzy out the end of my chanter which is helping me obtain those nice hard D’s.
Please excuse this question but are you keeping your right hand pinky and ring finger down when they should be? I find many players don’t get those two back down in time when going up the scale from the Ds. Makes the F#s and Gs really awful flat if you don’t.
Bottom D - hard or soft? Definitely a little more pressure to hold hard D
Bottom E - takes some finesse to hold the pitch down on many chanters I’ve played.
Top E - a little flat, needs a push on my Gallagher chanter.
Top B - in tune?
The list goes on. I suppose it depends on your definition of slight. If I can’t make the pressure adjustment fast enough, I reach for the tape or start thinking about the reed.
And of course each day is different. On my concert chanter, the middle notes G, and A flatten relatively when the humidity goes up, and vice verse.
As long as I can finesse the tuning of a reed, I value tone, projection and responsiveness just as highly.
True, E is a big problem of Uilleann chanters. but must be corrected with reed adjustment, rushing the chanter. Whatever. Make another reed.
Or, get used to the sharp bottom E, take it as a “feature” of Union pipes.
We have (to learn to) to live with it.
But, seriously, F (more precisely F#) should not be a problem.
For what it’s worth, I find that F# is a note that can be particularly sensitive to the reed. I notice this especially on flat chanters and/or lightly reeded concert pitch sticks; opening or closing the reed can shift this note a good deal relative to the rest of the scale as well. I have sometimes found, for instance, that the F# is flatter when the reed is more open or stiffer. Relative octave tuning can shift as well.
Thanks for the thoughts. It’s not really a problem. I can adjust it with a little more pressure, and the G also takes a little more push so it’s an easy transiton. The E below needs a big adjustment in pressure whatever. The second 8ve F# is spot on, so it’s an octave thing.
As you say Bill, if the reed is more open then this problem doesn’t occur, but overall the chanter’s a bit flat and the response is less good. It’s all a matter of balancing the compromises, or maybe I’m unfortunate not have a pefect reed.
I was really curious what nemethmik can suggest since he contends that all these notes can be played with the same pressure.
More or less same pressure, more or less in tune (not perfect but OK)
Unless you are Tommy Martin or Leo Rickard, you cannot control pressure so delicately that each and all notes are perfectly in tune when playing jigs and reels up to speed, can you?
Could this possibly have any relationship to my “sinking” F in the 1st octave? As I said, when more pressure is applied, it drops in pitch, so I have to ease off the bag a little, where as in the second octave I have to take that extra pressure and use it in order to bring the note sharper, or in tune.
That was my assumption when I mentioned my issue. The bottom F# drops on pressure on all my chanters I tried - Gallagher D, Gallagher C, K&Q D. Coincidentally (?) all three are a little sharp (closer to equal temperament F#) and need a touch of pressure to bring them down.
Bill’s comment on reed opening is worth noting (like all his comments)
Yesterday before I ever read your response, I experimented with some reverseable tuning tricks for the reed and chanter, and what you just described is really what I ended up doing, which has really helped solve my problem with the first octave F. I still have to watch my bag pressure of course, however it isn’t as troublesome as it was before. Not too shabby I guess… I’ll get the hang of these pipes one way or another…
Plus it’s flat, unless I take the little gizzy out the end of my chanter which is helping me obtain those nice hard D’s.
