Something I have always wondered is why the company that makes Generation whistles does not invest in a new mouthpiece mold. The existing mold is obviously worn if the mouthpiece tolerances vary so widely and suffers from flash.
I am aware that the cost of making a mold is very high, but one would think that their reputation and sales suffer from not acting. (I think today’s consumers are also more informed especially in this day of rapid communication - like this Forum for instance.)
I suspect the company is more concerned with selling cheap toys to children and tourists than turning out quality musical instruments to be sold to a pretty small demogrpahic of folks who take them seriously.
Warning … rant ahead …
What makes you think this is true? Is it your personal experience that the tolerances vary and that they suffer from flash? Or are you just repeating what you’ve read here on the Chiffboard, and maybe elsewhere?
Honestly, this idea that so many Generations are bad seems to be one of those internet memes or urban legends that are just impossible to kill once they get started. It’s Gresham’s Law of information, with bad information driving out the good.
I’m definitely not picking on you, Pipe Bender, far from it. Just using this as an opportunity for another attempt to put a stake through the heart of this insidious vampire meme.
I have played/tried maybe a few dozen Generations in my life. Granted, that’s not a huge sample. But the fact is that NOT A SINGLE GENERATION I HAVE EVER PLAYED HAS BEEN BAD. NOT ONE. And these have all been straight off-the-shelf Gens, no special tweaks. Old style (ridge and dimple). New style, both right after the mid-80s change and current stock in the shops today. They have all been JUST FINE, with the typical, classic Generation sound and feel. And I seriously doubt I’ve been living under a special lucky star.
When Ryan Duns teaches his whistle classes, he orders Generation Ds for his entire class of beginners. Why would he do this if he thought he would be giving his students bad whistles?
I used to accept the “bad Generation” meme on face value, too, despite the fact that it didn’t square with my own experience. But after years of observing great-sounding Generations turn up constantly in sessions, tionóls, concerts, videos, classes, etc., I’d be crazy not to question the validity of this meme.
It’s true, there is some variation among the Gens I’ve tried. Some are a bit purer sounding, some a bit more aggressive. The 4 Gen Ds in my stable cover this spectrum, and it’s nice to have that choice. But the range of variation is no greater than any other brand/make of whistle I’ve tried.
I once bought a dozen or so Feadóg Ds in a batch, and the spread of variation was at least as much as the Generations, if not more. For that matter, I’ve tried a number of Burkes, Copelands, Susatos, etc., and the range of variation of those has been MORE than that of Generations. The issue of variation is hardly confined to cheapies.
People who have actually played large numbers of Generations tend to report a sort of Gaussian bell curve distribution of quality. That is, 10% may be outstanding whistles, 10% may be ones that you’d tend to reject, and the other 80% are perfectly OK. Given the nature of mass manufacturing and the tiny tolerances involved, this may be a similar picture for any whistle. If every maker would toss out the worst 10% of their production that people tend to focus on, the perceived problem would largely vanish.
As for flashing … Both in my experience and anecdotally, Waltons and Clares have been far more afflicted by bad flashing than Generations (not to mention Waltons short tubes and bad tuning, at least in the past). And yet you hardly see Waltons and Clares get bashed the way Generations routinely are.
I am 100% convinced that the so-called problem with Gens has far more to do with whistle players than with the whistles. Gens are narrow bore instruments that take good breath control to make them sing properly and to control the flexible intonation. They also have a considerable amount of chiff and chirp, which is EXACTLY why so many experienced players like them. They are a bit challenging to play, but the payoff from mastering them is the classic Irish whistle sound that you can get from few other instruments.
But put these characteristics in the hands of inexperienced players, and you instantly get complaints of harshness, scratchiness, bad tuning, etc. I’m honestly not sure what else people expect. I know of no other woodwind instrument - clarinet, flute, etc. - that you can put in the hands of a beginner, and when it sounds bad the first impulse is to blame the instrument. With a chorus of other inexperienced players on the Chiffboard and elsewhere on the internet ready to chime in and agree with this irrational logic.
It’s as if there’s an underlying assumption that playing the whistle requires no technique. You just blow and play. So any problems are the whistle’s fault, and the solution is to try another whistle. You can read on the Chiffboard about things like diaphragm control, backpressure, intonation pressure plateaus, embouchure position, mouth cavity shape, blowing into tune, playing the chirp, finger speed, etc. - all things which are eminently applicable to playing Generations. Then, side by side with the “bad Generation” meme you can read another oft-expressed meme that “a good player can make any whistle sound good”. What’s wrong with this picture?
As I’ve said before here, I think there are umpteen reasons why a whistler might choose to play a whistle other than a Generation for a particular purpose in a particular setting with particular personal preferences. I love my Burkes, Sindts, Overtons, Copelands, Susatos, Freemans, and I use and play them all. But ultimately, the Generation is the reference standard by which I measure them all. And if I can’t articulate a MUSICAL reason why I choose one of these others and sacrifice the Generation sound for some other advantage, then I haven’t done my homework.
I realize that a rant like this is probably not going to settle the issue. There are plenty of other whistles out there. People will always pick and choose what they want to believe because it makes them happy. Generation’s lack of corporate outreach to the community of whistle enthusiasts will continue to hurt their perceived reputation. The best trad whistle players here on the board can argue from their experience, but that doesn’t communicate well or convincingly in cyberprint without face to face interaction. So I’m sure the “bad Generation” vampire will rise again when darkness falls. 
Your are quite correct - I have always avoided trying/buying any Generations simply because of the urban legend about them and that I am hesitant to try whistles for fear of germs and viruses (I have enough health issues without adding more). (I do have 3 Jerry Freeman tweaked Gens though.)
I think it may in fact have been that Jerry mentioned in this Forum that he likes the tuning of Generation barrels plus the comments from time to time of members that love their Generations that prompted me to make this post.
It’s true, I didn’t care for the two Waltons whistles I had. Their tuning was off.
I do really think your factual rant is worthwhile. It worked for me!
BTW thanks for enhancing the title.
EDIT: I’ve since renamed the title which might possibly help.
This is kind of covered in your “Gaussian bell curve” thing, but I do think the exceptionally good Generations stand out more than the bad ones (not that I’ve ever found one, either). I have two really really superb Gens - sadly I gave my brass D exceptional one to my SO (and I don’t get to play it - how is that fair?) - but I still have an incredibly beat up, but truly awesome brass C Gen. It’s just gorgeous.
I agree completely with everything MTGuru wrote (by itself quite a feat… how often do two people agree on so much, so completely on the internet?!) and in fact wrote some of that in a PM recently.
Two Generations (two only!) out of all the ones I have played have been truly exceptional, and both are what might be called Mark 1 examples (ie, they are old). Both are significantly better than most other whistles I’ve tried, including nearly every handmade one. Both are flawed in some manufacturing way and/or exhibit severe wear. Makes me think they were the defects, not the norm… But I’m not sure about that at all. None of the Generations I’ve tried that were made in the last 10 or so years were objectively bad, with the possible exception of one Bb, which is airy compared to the others. And cracked… so… None of them had any significant issues. All of them were on par with any handmade whistle I’ve tried (with obvious differences due to the maker’s aims). Including a Blackbird, btw. I’ve put a tweaked Eb up against a regular Eb, and found I preferred the untweaked version. The two whistles I can say with any certainty that I would be happy to play instead of my Generation d and Feadog D are the Blackbird (although I don’t like it as well) and one particular O’Riordan D. (Not counting the two Gens of course).
I only came across the concept when I bought an iffy generation for my son (as detailed in another current thread). If I’d come across it before, I wouldn’t have bought it!
The vampire rises.
Is it the whistle that is iffy, or is it your son? Seriously. And no disrespect intended.
It strikes me as strange this thread is treating all of this as some sort of new insight.
Ah well, carry on..
Well so far there has been one convert willing now to try them with an open mind - me.
And there are always newer members, like myself, that take all the words from you older members, “sages”, as gospel 
he’s VERY iffy 
but that was not the only issue; and while I’ll be the first person to admit that I’m at best a half-way competent player of anything, I can hear if things are in tune when I play them. Taking the head off, cleaning the glue out and putting it back on made a lot of difference, ut the cnat is still not right. As it’s not in a key which includes cnat, that’s probably not a major moan. Not at four quid, it’s not.
But seriously, I would never, ever judge a whistle on a performance of twinkle twinkle little star by a child picking it up for the first time.
Perhaps you should have taken the time to read the thread. She wasn’t really trying to further the 'legend," and others were quick to come to Generation’s defense. Her son has hardly even begun to play the whistle - which was at the heart of the thread.
Besides, I can distinctly remember you furthering this “vampire” legend many times yourself in the past - and as recently as within the past two or three years - and given that you’re widely respected as a good whistler on this forum, I think that has done more of the “harm” you are complaining about than anything a “newbie” has posted here. In other words, if they are repeating things they have read on this forum, those things may very well have been written by you.
Cut the girl some slack, she seems to be real enough about it all. 
(I’ll probably get banned [again] for this, but that’s how I see it.)
I agree with MTGuru that this is largely urban legend. Actually, I have played one unambiguously bad Generation, but that’s not at all significant. I now realize that what I saw many years ago as good and bad Generations probably is more about excellent versus good. And that error on my part was all about my lack of experience and skill, plus taking seriously the feedback from an awful lot of players. And, I’ll also say that I sat across from Paddy Moloney in a dressing room before a Chieftains concert and we had this exchange:
DW: You have played Generation whistles for years and years. And I wonder if that is a matter of habit or custom, or is there something you prefer about the Generation whistles?
I think perhaps you mold yourself into it. You know you get a good one and…I can’t really play every Generation whistle, you know…In fact, the one I have now, I’m ashamed to show it to you, it’s out on stage now.
DW: I saw it. Your manager Yvonne showed it to me.
It is in three different bits. > (It’s a red mouthpiece Generation brass held together by glue and black electrical tape-DW)> . It’s glued together. But it still has the sweetness I like of a Generation whistle. It was given to me 22 years ago by Mary Bergin.
DW: Really!
I have been trying to get back to her since. She can always get me a good one.
So, I confess to taking that seriously, but it’s probably true that Paddy really COULD play just about any Generation, but I think he’s clearly endorsing the idea that there’s some range of quality among the Generations.
I’ve got a bad Generation, what can I say. It’s an Eb. I managed to take it from completely unplayable (squeaks and squawks, bad in the first octave, unbearable in the second) to playable but harsh with some sandpaper. It lives on a shelf and doesn’t get played, although in the interests of fairness I’ve just got it out now and given it a go. It’s still bad.
I also have a decent and perfectly playable Bb and a very old G that is pretty good and surprisingly mellow for such a high pitched whistle.
Yes, I realise this is a statistically insignificant sample, but all I’m saying is there’s a reason behind the “urban legend”.
Mail it to MTGuru. I’ll pay the postage. The outcome can’t possibly be bad. If MTGuru unpacks it and plays it beautifully, that’s a great outcome. If he finds it unbearable, that’s a great outcome.
Well I’m not picking on ducky’s duckling either. But rather the casual invocation of “iffy Generation” once again in this thread in particular, where it’s exactly the use of that sort of terminology which is at issue.
Cite specific examples, and I’ll be happy to address them. My view of this perpetually toxic Generation issue is fairly nuanced, not simply black and white, possibly subject to misinterpretation, and as I already said above, not always easy to communicate here.
Second, I’ve already stated that my perspective on this has evolved somewhat over years along with improvement in my playing and, mostly, exposure to a greater variety of whistles and makers. If there’s something truly boneheaded I’ve said here in the past that requires some grand dramatic gesture of renunciation like Prospero breaking his staff, I’ll think about it.
That said, the essential details of my rant are things I’ve certainly said here before, nothing new.
Oh thanks a bunch, Dale. That’s all I need, piles of Generations arriving at my doorstep for the new Chiff & Fipple Generation testing service. 
But if you’re really serious, I’ll do it. Really.
Oh heck yeah.
The problem with that particular whistle is that it has been modified… so it may very well be bad now, and it might have been good before. No real way to tell.
I’m also open to people sending me their bad (unmodified) generations. With any luck I’ll get a nice old one that is perfect for me. To go back to those two excellent Gens, I’ve no doubt they are not playable by everyone. They’re very delicate.
Well, it’s perfectly possible you have an Eb stinker. No way to know unless you … ahem … take Dale up on his offer. But it’s possible your expectations are a mismatch to the whistle. Your mention “mellow”. It’s not a word I associate with Gens, or necessarily want to associate with them. I like my Generations bright and chirpy.
One thing you might try if you also have a Gen D lying around is to swap heads with the Eb, since they’re exactly the same head (1/2 inch inside diameter). Sometimes a particular head will perform better at the higher or lower pitch. My Gen Eb underwent a head exchange with a D, and both the Eb and the D are a bit nicer for it. No harm trying.