Easing your E

Uilleann Pipes
1

If you’ve got a new reed with a squirrelly E note in both octaves, what do you generally do to tame it? I’ve got one that tends to be a bit sharp (possibly my own chanter design, a Gallagher which I’ve heard has difficult E’s some times coupled with my own newbie reed making skills.) Apart from the sharpness in both octaves, this particular reed howls something fierce on the octave E as well. If I let off the pressure even just a bit it just goes mad.

Now I’ve been instructed in the past to try thinning the entire length of the scrape along both extreme edges. Sometimes this helps a little, sometimes not at all. It seems that apart from a slightly flat back D, everything else is pretty well in tune with itself across both octaves. At least as close as I ever get it.

Any other E suggestions? :slight_smile:

Thanks!

Bri~

2

depening on the chanter’s vintage…it may or may not have had that issue addressed

you oughta contact SG himself

3

Have done - it’s new enough to have had the newer bore design he’s using. When he was out a couple summers back for the SLPC summer tionól as well I asked him to take a look and see if he found the same difficulty. He was able to throw together a reed that while not perfect in tonality, played in tune against itself. Sadly time didn’t allow for any further reed making…there were waffles to eat! :slight_smile:

Any guesses as to what reed making skills I can employ here? I’d like to figure this out in the cane as best I can…and I know it’s not the only time the E’s have been problematic for their piper.

4

Heya Brian, have you explored the positioning of the staple within the reed head?

Also, the amount of bark left on the lip area of the reed head (meaning a little more) may produce stronger d’s and strengthen e’s.

Sometimes widening the top of the scrape can help your situation.

Food for thought and I am certain that there are other routes you can take that I have missed.

5

Yo Brian,

I imagine that you have tried the usual; cussing yelling and such, but have you tried lighting it on fire and stopmping on it? That usually shows a tempermental reed who’s wearing the pants in the relationship :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously now…

The sharpness in both octaves would suggest a chanter bore issue, but I remember Seth checking it out too - maybe he was more distracted with thoughts of waffles and ice cream than either of us knew at the time and missed something?. (I kinda doubt it though). Have you tried the roll-of-stiff-paper trick to see if it flattens both Es? Sometimes it needs to be placed between the F# and E, sometimes betwen E and D#.

I would like to be able to simply blame it on Durango, and suggest that you should just get your butt back here to Salt Lake, but I recall that you had similar issues here? Or maybe it was the more typical problem of flatness in the upper octave E? I can’t remeber.

In addition to what Joseph (the one in Florida, not the prophet and seerer one - well maybe they are one and the the same, I don’t know) said, I might add to the confusion and despair with the following…

  • Check that the bridle is not impinging on the reed, particulary the base of the scrape. I have had more than one reed where even the slightest intereference of the bridle with the vibration at the base of the reed caused skreeling octave E. It also caused the bottom D to gurgle without a lot of suppositories shoved into the bell, and the whole lower hand in the first octave was rather constipated. Carefully prying the center of the bridle away from the reed, even an imperceptible amount, greatly improved things.

  • The following may be anecdotal, and I don’t know if this will help with this particular E issue, but I have noticed that since I have been using Benedict Koehler’s method of progressively advancing the staple to the point where the reed head wants to close that my Es are much more in tune and well behaved. This could also be, part and parcel, due to the the trimming and shaping of the head particularly at the bottom near the top of the staple/bottom of scrape where dweleth the Es. By BKs method, I mean the method demonstrated in “The Heart Of the Instrument” where he does a lot of listening to the cane. I guess women have been right all along, we are poor listeners, and now it is affecting our reeds as well! :stuck_out_tongue: Is there no end to our suffering as pipers.

Reed problems aside, I hope things are dandy in Durango, and hope I can make a pit stop there this winter!

John.

6

I usually shoot for a slightly sharp back D and “poster putty” it into tune.

Have you tried taping (or poster puttying) the bottom 1/3-1/2 of the ghost D hole and possibly a smidge of the top of the E hole? I have to do that to get my Es to behave, especially on my D set.

According to my notes from my 1996 class under BK, he said that the Es “live” in the volume in the head just above the staple (possible staple eye adjustment needed) and the behavior of the Es lies in the scrape along the straight part of the V or U.

7

have yoy tiried a wrapped wire bridal? I have totally switched over to this style because I almost always get better results. could just my style of making them. I get very uniform results. just a suggestion, best of luck, Tansy

8

have yoy tiried a wrapped wire bridal? I have totally switched over to this style because I almost always get better results. could just my style of making them. I get very uniform results. just a suggestion, best of luck, Tansy

9

Actually the discrepancy between the first and 2nd octaves cannot be corrected by scraping the reed. The problem lies in the fact that the first note above the bottom note of most woodwinds has problems. The E is the worst note on the flute both in pitch and tone. What will actually correct the problem is to extend the length of the chanter on the bottom.

You can do this with a section of tubing that is wood lined and has a bore that matches the chanter bore. Slip this section on the bottom of the chanter and adjust it up and down to bring in the E.

This will also flatten the bottom D and pull the E’s closer together. If your chanter is flat in the bottom to begin with then you are screwed…pretty much. This will also effect the higher notes so a bit of jiggling around may be necessary.

Most pipers learn to live with it. The real answer is to get a set of flat pipes. The E problem on those is almost non existent.

All the best,
Pat Sky

10

good info,

here is one more question about the E note. In my chanter, a britton, I am having a problem with the high E. I love this chanter very very much, but this one note is a bummer.

It is completely fine in the Low octave, but in the second octave it is flat. I have to do a “tinkers E” as someone put it. Basically its just lifting only the ring finger of my right hand off and lifting the chanter off my leg.

It makes it hard to play airs or any song that had alot of high E action.

What should i do? :frowning:

11

Well, I have the opposite (almost) problem with a C chanter. The overall tuning is acceptable with the exception of the second octave E which is so flat that it’s barely above the Ghost D. What would be the sequence of adjustments to try with this problem?

dave boling

12

At the risk of hijacking Brian’s original query about both E notes being sharp, I want to pursue the issue of the discrepancy between the two Es, as this is a typical problem with many D chanters. Sorry Brian :stuck_out_tongue:

Seagull, see Pat Sky’s comments if you have not already. It is a common problem with D chanters. You discovered one way folks deal with it…

I have to do a “tinkers E” as someone put it. Basically its just lifting only the ring finger of my right hand off and lifting the chanter off my leg.

Actually, the fingering you describe is a way to play harsh or hard E, just give it a little more pressure. It is not completely in tune on my D chanter, but the hard Es are wonderfully in tune on the C chanter that I made recently, and have a really nice tone - a really wonderful way to color the E note, so you might find it useful to aquire the dexterity to use that fingering.

You might find that the pitch of the second octave E is sensitive to bag pressure and some folks manage to reign it in by better pressure control and the standard fingering, blowing it into tune as it were. I think that beginners tend to over-pressurize the second octave, anticipating difficulty in reaching and maintaining the note. I know I had this problem in spades, at least. So things might improve as you get more relaxed.




The problem lies in the fact that the first note above the bottom note of most woodwinds has problems. The E is the worst note on the flute both in pitch and tone. What will actually correct the problem is to extend the length of the chanter on the bottom.

Pat,
Very interesting. This must be why flutes have a lower foot joint?
I’m wondering if the opposite is true, if having a bunch of crap stuffed into the bell to bring on the hard D and keep it from gurgling has the opposite effect of extending the bell - might this be a source of discrepency in pitch between the lower and upper E notes? It seems that most folks D chanters I have looked at need some degree of ‘inducement’ in the way of debris stuffed into the bell in order to play the hard tonic note. I wonder if differences from person to person in the amount and position of their rush material could be a factor in the variablity of the E tuning?

Still, I think that there must be some contribution to the E discrepency that is not due to the chanter design, since there are plenty of examples of people playing a particular make of chanter who do not have this issue and some who do - same chanter design different reed. Although some folks may just be better at blowing the E into tune.

As my reed making improves, this probelm with the Es has vastly improved, so has the ability to get the hard tonic D without the need to ‘rush’ the bell, so simulatneously out came the packing in the bottom of the chanter, so I guess I need to put it back in and see if the difference in pitch of the Es increases.

Ahghh! too much for me to consider without the aid of a pint of beer,

Best regards,
John.

13

A roll of crap - I prefer 180 grit emery with the grit facing inwards - up the bottom of a chanter can be to tune (flatten) the harsh D, or at least that’s what it’s for if I put it there! I often get a better, but a bit sharp, harsh D without the roll. If there’s loads up there there’s probably a reed problem.

Also a staple eye that is too narrow can cause a barking 2nd octave E.

If you’ve got the E’s bang in without squeezing dow in the first octave you’ve probably got a sharp high B . . . . don’t forget you’re on a roundabout, or perhaps a swing, to a certain extent!

14

Posted October 5th 2006: Before you start carving your reed, try inserting a rush made from cardstock 2" x 3/4" rolled into a tube, between the E and Eb holes. This seems to work very well on wide bore chanters. The cover for a pack of Bali Shag or Gauloises cigarette papers should do the trick.
Marc