Bullet-proofing the messenger ...

Discussion has raged in this and other forums over the years about whether tuners are helpful in assessing the tuning accuracy of your flute and your playing, matters of critical importance to the flute player. Tuners have not faired well in the discussions, sometimes unfairly. To me the biggest problem with using a tuner is “staying honest”. If you watch the tuner while you play notes at it, you are drawn to correct them, possibly not a bad thing in terms of training you, but not a good thing in terms of achieving a meaningful and impartial assessment. But I suspect all that is about to change, due to a new development by Graeme Roxburgh.

Graeme, a flute player and computer scientist in New Zealand, mentioned on the Chiff & Fipple list a computer application called Tartini, developed by researchers at his university. Tartini permits you to record sounds and then view their characteristics, including pitch. I thanked Graeme for bringing it to our attention, and wondered if it might be possible to extend it further. In particular, I was looking for a system that would automatically scan through the results, rejecting the bum notes inevitably created accidentally, and collating the good ones, producing a graph of the intonation of the flute (and of course its player). It would be truly lovely if you could just play a tune into it, but would be good enough if it could just handle scales. What would be important is that you can play without being aware of the results, and that the machine, and not the user, would be responsible for analysis. Honest, impartial, easy.

Well, by George, I think he’s done it. Rather than delving into Tartini itself, Graeme employed a stats package called R to do the post processing. You record into Tartini, export the data into R and, bingo, up comes a filtered, collated intonation graph that Graeme has programmed. The combined system is tentatively titled the Tartini-R Polygraph.

But, hang on a tick, how do we know it’s accurate? I tried to shake it up…

I suggested we try it on an instrument that cannot alter its intonation. Graeme produced credible looking plots from Jackie Daly’s accordion playing. I still wasn’t convinced, so used Excel’s random feature RAND() to make up a “tune” using 5 each of all the notes in 2 octaves of the D and G scale. I converted that into music using ABC Navigator to play the “tune” and create a MIDI file using the flute voice. (Sounds a bit like Schoenberg but not as bad.) Interestingly this showed up some tuning problems on the Polygraph. Graeme investigated and found that the MIDI system was introducing tuning blips at the starts of notes. He used Audacity to notch out the blips, and Tartini-R now reports the tune as being in tune. So Tartini-R was right - it was the MIDI tune that was not!

I’d have to say I’m impressed and pretty excited about this (after all, this is something I’ve been hanging out for for over 30 years!). It’s going to show up problems that we flute makers might prefer not to have shown up. I can imagine we’re going to be receiving a lot of critical emails enclosing Tartini-R plots. Some of us will deal better with that than others! Perhaps we should accept bribes to keep the genie in the bottle? Whoops, dropped the darned thing …

It’s also going to show up problems that we flute players might prefer not to be reminded of. But better to know you play the second octave flat in the privacy of your own home, rather than having it come up for open debate at the session. And of course, it isn’t limited to flute. Fiddle players would find it equally valuable, although there it’s all about the playing and not the instrument.

So, it’s clear that the system has great promise, and is worth developing further. But have we done enough to prove it? We don’t want to release it, get a lot of people worried about their flutes and flute playing and then find out it has a problem we hadn’t thought to check. What further tests should we subject it to before releasing it?

Speak now! I can’t keep my thumb over this bottle forever …

Terry

One thing Terry hasn’t mentioned but is important. This has nothing to do with equal or just or any other temperament. What we want now is ideas for how to further test it. What will it take to convince you it is accurate before we let you try it out?

Cheers
Graeme

Congratulations, I suspect that your flutes could only but improve by this discovery, as The McGee Improved, by Terry! (hehehe, by George!)

BTW, I accept that a flute maker could rely on a standard, especially one other than their own, to perhaps eliminate any deviation from “correct.”

:wink:

It looks very interesting. I was going to try it but I couldn’t get it to run on my Red Hat 5 Linux machine.

Just to ask, but are you running Red Hat on a Microsoft PC?

I’m running Red Hat 5 on a Dell Dimension desktop. It has an Intel Core 2 Duo.

The machine was pre-loaded with Windows Vista but I blew it away and installed Red Hat.

Couldn’t you just play your instrument with the tuner where you can’t see it, then have someone else record the results? :stuck_out_tongue:

Yes, Dell is a licensed Microsoft manufacturer, but it’s only a PC in Dell clothing.

However, speaking as a Mac user, I can appreciate your move to a Unix based OS such as Red Hat, as Mac computers are Unix based, too.

Red Hat is one of the best Unix-derived operating systems, but to use it on a PC could be something less than reliable, unfortunately.

If you want to run Red Hat, then try it on a Mac, or, better yet, just run the Mac.

Go Mac!

A tuner will jump around lots. This system lets you just play eg a reel at full speed, a slow air or whatever, then look at where the “average” pitch was for D, E F# etc for each octave plus shows the spread of pitch.

you have input “believed good” data into it and found errors
you have fixed the found errors &
input the corrected data and found no errors

feed more “known bad” data into it.
does it see it as bad
do you agree as to why/what is bad about it

Shhh, please, sir, don’t mess with the maker, for, after all, it is we who must then deal with their results, as the flutes we play.

I thank you.

"The tide is high,

But I’m moving on.

I’m gonna be your number one,

Number one…"

:wink:

you were a cheer leader in your last life weren’t ya!

died in a bus crash on the way to the homecoming game

you’re not fooling me :stuck_out_tongue:

Sir, Blondie is most certainly not bad data. Though that particular song is less than wonderful.

The Mac is a really nice machine. I used to use one years ago but I need a Red Hat/Intel based machine for work.

I have most of the multimedia software I need working on Red Hat like audacity and rosegarden for mp3 & midi. They both work quite well for recording & playback.

I’ll keep fishing around. I’m sure one day I’ll get the right recipe for building tartini on Red Hat. The dependencies are always the problem.

Did Blondie do that song?

The tune I have in mind was done back in the early sixties, and it rocks. Hear it once, and you’ll never forget it.

Then again, maybe one needs to have been there. It was another time, and that tune brings back a wealth of memories.

:wink:

Oh, wow. Apparently the song was originally recorded by a group called The Paragons from Jamaica. New to me.

Perhaps I’ve shown my (lack of) age?

But yes, Blondie recorded it.

http://miracle.otago.ac.nz/postgrads/tartini/

it just get worse from there…


Thanks S1m0n!

Yes you can download Tartini from there and should probably do so. In itself it is a very good piece of software. As Terry wrote I’m taking the output from Tartini and plotting the results differently using a script I’ve written in “R”. This outputs a graph showing the distribution of what you played for each note of the scale. Hence if playing with an old 1830 flute you might see all the low Ds 40cents flat, A, B sharp etc.