Beginner Low Whistle Questions

Whistle
1

Hi everyone,

I’m new here, and I’m also fairly new to whistles in general. I’ve only been playing the tin whistle for about two months, and I’ve got the basics down. I also really like the sound of a low whistle, I think even more than the sound of a tin whistle, so after I saw that I did like the tin whistle and that I would like to continue learning it I went ahead and bought my first low whistle.

So far the hardest thing is learning the pipers grip, but I’m getting there. I am having an issue with the low D and Low E notes however. I’m finding that when I go to play the low D, it requires a VERY gentle breath, or it will go into the second octave. This means then that my low D note ends up sounding very soft. I would like for it to sound stronger or louder, but when I try to do that it changes pitch. Also I find it very hard to play it quickly, especially when coming from a high note…

I don’t know if it’s the whistle or if it’s me because I have little experience with a low whistle (I’ve only had it for two days). Any ideas? Any tips?

This is the whistle by the way, if it matters: http://www.ebay.com/itm/230735048286?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2746wt_1267

2

Getting a good grip and tone on a low D takes time, so be patient. By all means try the regular whistle fingering in addition to piper’s grip and use whichever feels better to you. The low notes in general are delicate and each whistle has it’s own range of possible dynamics. See if you can find a good local whistle player (at a session perhaps?) to try out your whistle for you and see if your problems are due to the whistle or to your inexperience. All things being equal, that looks like a pretty nice low cost low D option.

3

It takes a while to get used to holding a low whistle. I thought I was doing it right at the beginning but had a similar problem to you. It turns out I wasn’t getting a good seal on all the holes all the time. It can be a bit tricky when some of the holes are covered by joints but just work at your technique and it should sort itself out. Granted, I have no experience with that particular whistle and it is possible that it just takes a very gentle breath on the low end.

4

The first thing I’d check is that you are getting a complete seal on the low d and e. If you are absolutely sure that the holes are completely covered, then it is the way the whistle is voiced. The ethnic winds whistle you are using claims hand built quality so there is going to be some variance from whistle to whistle. It may be that no matter what you do, it will be very soft on the low end. On the flip side for not much more there are some other options out there with proven track records. Susato comes to mind. The ones with the keys pretty much eliminate partially covered holes while making for very easy finger spacing, however for mine, I actually prefer the bigger stretch for the tactile experience and control over bends and half-holed notes

5

On the topic of the craftsmanship, if you do think that’s the problem I would suggest getting in touch with the maker. I believe he’s been around the board here, but I haven’t seen any posts from him lately. Give it a few weeks to makes sure that’s really where the problem lies before you try that though.

6

This topic - very low breath requirement at the bottom end with Ethnic Wind whistles - has come up a few times around here. Witness the following fairly recent thread:

https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/newbie-needs-help-new-low-d-is-shifting-octaves-way-too-fast/80273/13

That thread also contains links to older threads discussing aspects of Ethnic Winds whistles.

7

Its important that your right hand falls on to the exact place on the body every time. You don;t want to go searching for the right spot everytime you pick up the whistle. Make a simple thumb rest and tape it to the whistle body below the F# hole so its behind your thumb.
I have played the low D for a year and adding the thumb rest along with the pipers grip made it possible for me to play the low D as easily as the high D. Its worth a try… Bob.

8

Maybe a stupid question, but how does a thumbrest works (as a beginner I’ve never used a thumbrest)? Is it to keep the whistle in balance, or is it to position the thumb, and with it the other fingers, always in the same place.

9

The idea behind a thumbrest is that it rests on your thumb to support some or all of the weight of the instrument. That way it’s easier to hold it up when you play the higher notes that have few or no fingers down. It’s not about positioning of the hand.

10

It’s both really. A thumbrest is primarily conceived to support the instrument, but the majority of whistles (unless they’re made in brass or wood) don’t really need the weight supporting, and you can use your right hand little or ring finger to support the instrument when playing the C# (I use the ring finger). But the thumbrest does also give a good reference for the right hand so you can hit the lowest notes accurately and reliably.

Thumbrests aren’t pretty, but they do have a purpose. If you persevere, you’ll probably find eventually that you don’t need one, but there’s no reason in principle not to use them.

11

Wow thank you everyone for your feedback! Yes I have been practicing my technique and I think I’m getting a bit better. I have 14 days to return it if I decide to, so I’m going to wait and see if the problem lies with me or it the whistle.

And yes, benhall.1 the link you posted describes the same issue I’m having, so we will see. :slight_smile:

12

Don’t be discouraged by not getting consistant low D&E-F# notes at the start. Finger memory kicks in over time. Whenever I could not get a good sound from the low D whistle I would put in down, walk away and try again later… Bob.

13

If you read that other thread and it turns out that’s just how the whistle is, consider returning it and getting a whistle that is known for a strong bottom note. I think you can get a Dixon TB012 which is quite good for < $100 but I don’t know how strong its bottom note is.

I found playing a low F made it easier to learn piper’s grip which made playing low D easier later on. A Kelpie Low F is one the cheapest professional low F available but there are other options.

One more thing, the attack of the bottom note is important in determining if it plays the low octave or the 2nd. So if you give it a very gentle attack and then suddenly increase the air, you can often get the bottom note to sound strong. Try starting the bottom note softly and slowly increase air pressure until it breaks to the 2nd octave. And then you can learn how far you can push it before it breaks and then work on hitting that bottom note and quickly raising the pressure to the maximum threshold.

14

Both. Also, to support the weight of the whistle. Not a stupid question at all.

15

Is it not to stop your thumb from getting over-tired, by giving it a good old rest? Reminds me of the apprentice routine where the new apprentice would be sent to the stores to ask for “a short rest” or “a long weight” whenever they were getting too much to cope with.

16

I, too, am just getting into the low whistle…and have read about and seen (video) the piper’s grip just about everywhere. I’ve been working with it but find it much easier and more comfortable to use my pinky for hole 6 and let my third finger rest btw. holes 5 and 6. Why should I not do this?

looking forward to your thoughts…

17

well… there’s really no reason at all why you shouldn’t. If it works for you, that’s all that matters. I play mine with a modified “super-duper EZ grip” (or whatever they’re calling it these days) with my pinky on the bottom hole.

18

Thanks for the explanations on the thumbrest :thumbsup:

19

I can think of a few reasons. But they’re … nuanced. I’m sure I’ve covered this before, somewhere …

The comfort thing is a Catch-22. SD-EZ Grip is uncomfortable at first only because you’re not used to it. And you won’t get used to it unless you get used to it. It’s a vicious cycle, that you need to break by deciding that your temporary discomfort is part of the normal learning curve. And before long you won’t even remember the problem.

It’s like guitar. When you first begin to play steel string guitar, it hurts like heck. Then it stops hurting, because you develop callouses. But if you give up because of discomfort, you never develop callouses. If you give up on SD-EZ grip, your hand will never learn to stretch properly.

One of the hardest things to automatize on whistle is the role of the bottom pinky for balance and support. It may take years for your pinky to learn to dance properly. And pinky grip short-circuits that process by forcing your pinky into a different role. If you never plan to play high whistles, maybe that’s OK. Otherwise you’re only hurting yourself in the long run, IMO.

It’s true that on large whistles, the ring finger on the B3 hole may take over that support role. But then you’re mentally coupling the ring and pinky fingers to act as a support unit. That’s quite different from coupling them to act as a fingering unit. For effective pinky grip, you shouldn’t literally rest your ring finger between B2 and B3, but move it in parallel with the pinky, otherwise you’re hobbling your fingering dexterity. And this trains your brain to a very different, and more limited, neuro-muscular pathway.

All uilleann pipers and many fluters use the SD-EZ grip on their low-whistle-sized instruments. And you almost never see this discussion on pipes and flute forums - though flute grips can be a matter of debate. But people know how it’s supposed to be done and they just do it. So why this issue keeps coming up among beginning whistlers (and it does) frankly baffles me.

Sure, as the Perl motto says, TMTOWTDI - there’s more than one way to do it. There are always players of any instrument who do very well with idiosyncratic techniques. When I first started low whistle, I discovered pinky fingering and thought I’d found the Holy Grail. Until I realized the disadvantages, not to mention that there’s no need. Personally, I can switch easily between either, but I’m a very experienced wind player. As a sometime teacher and advisor, not pressing beginners to learn proper EZ grip (OK, piper’s grip) simply seems to me a dereliction of pedagogical duty, or something like that. :slight_smile:

20

And then starts hurting again if, like me, you’re a sporadic guitar player and your fingers forget they’ve gone soft when they still know where to go! On which note, your grip for larger whistles/flutes etc. probably also falls into the ‘use it or lose it’ category and can require work to resurrect when you leave it too long…