Mu
So much for mindfulness on my part: just noticed the attribution, I.B. That was djm, for the record.
Loren,
I must say, my friend, that this strikes me as a personal attack, your disclaimer about “not criticizing” notwithstanding.
Unless you know an awful lot about how jim spends his free time, I’m not sure you can know whether he is averse to “doing.”
So, I must respectfully object.
Dale
Dale, I’m truthfully surprised you’d take it that way. I harbour Jim no ill will and have, in fact, communicated with him via PM numerous times over the years.
I’m curious, (honestly, not being sarcastic here), how familiar you are with Buddhism and Zen practice/philosophy? The reason I ask, is that “direct” communication of this sort is not uncommon, particularly when one opens the subject “publicly” which Jim has done. Others communicated their thoughts with regards to what Jim was experiencing, and so, I did as well, albeit in a more direct style, absolutely no harm intended, and no reason for any to be received.
Sometimes you are simply too quick to judge me Dale, I think I’ve played very nicely the vast majority of the time over the last 3-4 years, but no credit for “time served and good behavior” I fear…
Loren
Just as you say you mean no ill will toward Jim, I mean none toward you and I am entirely sincere. I do apologize if I seemed ungrateful. You have in fact been a good citizen on this board and I regard you as a friend. No less today than yesterday.
Dale
Loren, I understand your address to Jim was well within in the spirit of kaidoku (public disputation), a pratice time-honored and integral to so many Buddhist branches.
In the same spirit, then, and wondering if maybe I shouldn’t have better gone the route of the PM here, I’ll hazard the following as this is a public discussion, and those who are unclear about that sort of thing might not understand it: IMHO, kaidoku better serves those who already “have their foot in”. Those who are unfamiliar or struggling with the purpose of such practices might be needlessly put off by it in a setting such as this website; so, per Dale’s point of view, the C&F parameters for discourse still apply here. I think this is reasonable.
Just to conclude by reminding you that I have much regard for you, Loren.
IMHO, a very fair observation, nicely put.
Nice to know, and thanks, Dale.
I’ve edited out my post, to avoid further misunderstandings.
Jim, in fairness to you, if you happened to miss the post in question and want to know what was said, I’ve saved my original text and will mail it to you if you like, otherwise I’ll delete my copy in a day or so.
Loren
Now I’ll have to really pay attention and see what editing I’ll have to do, too…
Thank you Jason, and points well taken.
To be honest, I’d never have said a word on the board, but for the fact that Jim went public with such depth, and the responses carried for several pages, with many making observations, so I really didn’t expect a problem. However, I should know by now that communicating in the manner that I did, while perfectly suitable in some senses, will typically not be well recieved on this message board, and I should have considered that before posting.
Loren
Moo. Erm…Mu. 
Then there was the Jewish Farmer who crossed a Jersey with a Holstein
…and got a Goldstein. It doesn’t say “Moo”. It says “Nu…”.
Bessie didn’t quite make it over, eh?
(Never could quite hang with the Zen school; the abbott of the Tofuku-ji seminary (if I’m remembering right) taught one of my classes in college for a couple of weeks. Sometimes it was fascinating, but then he’d, say, suddenly smack the table really hard, or throw something, or actually smack you – I got a good slap on the back once: it stung! – and it was just too startling for l’il old me.)
This is evidently the thread where the gentlemen hang out.
I better hope none of 'em spots me…
just lurkin’…I wasn’t even thinkin’ about nobody’s sacred cow
google google google
Yep, my suspicions were right. Tofuku-ji is a Rinzai place. Those are the guys who are more likely to do startling things like that. There’s much less if not none of that sort of thing in the Soto school.
Getting rapped on the shoulders with the keisaku stick during zazen is a different matter, though. It’s a practical thing. You usually make a “request” for that. It’s flat and light, so it doesn’t really hurt so much as it opens your eyes. It’s considered a “massage”, actually. Keeps you awake.
It always helps to know what you’re getting into ahead of time, I suppose!
Aha! Google! That got me this, w/r/t Rinzai:
“Koans are often accompanied by shouts or slaps from the master, intended to provoke anxiety leading to instant realization of the truth.”
Which sounds about right from my experience. Certainly in my case this stuff provoked anxiety, but if I experienced any instant realization of the truth, it’s long since flown out of my skull. Crap.
Far as I’m concerned, the abbot was operating out of habit in the class you mentioned. More to the point, I think, is this question: were the students in the class trying to resolve the Great Question, or were they just taking a class? Only the former might stand a chance of the abbot’s technique having an effect. Context, context. Easy for me to say, though…