Another Buddhist retreat

Poststructural Pub
1

I returned a couple of days ago from a five
day self-retreat at Mid-America Buddhist Association
(you can find them online), a Chinese Buddhist
monastery an hour West of St. Louis. It’s
way out in the country on a couple of hundred
acres of lovely land, surrounded by hills.
There’s an old farm house and a new
meditation hall. Also a new building in which
the ashes of deceased people, all of them Chinese-American,
are stored–it contains a huge
statue of a bodhisatva whose special role is
keeping people from being reborn in a
Hell Realm.

There was nobody there but two Malaysian nuns
and the Abbot, Ji Ru, who is on a two year self
retreat in a trailer behind the meditation hall.

It was so hot that the meditation hall was impossible
after 7 AM. I sat each morning from 6 to 7
with the nuns. I spent most of my time in
my little room, because it had an air conditioner.
On the first floor of the meditation hall there
is a large dining room, and I did a great deal of
walking meditation there. It was cooler than upstairs.
I blasted myself with fans.

I was bored to tears. I ate lunch at 12 with the nuns,
lovely people, in fact. We ate strange Chinese
food. Otherwise I was on my own.
It was very hard to sit in meditation in my room.
I kept lying down on the bed and then falling
asleep.

Finally I started reading books on Buddhism; there’s
a good library. One isn’t really supposed to do this
on a retreat, you’re supposed to meditate. But the choice
was between reading and passing out, so I read–a book about
the Dalai Lama, ‘The Wisdom of Forgiveness’ by
Victor Chen, and all sorts of other stuff.

Once our power failed, the AC died, and I figured
I would too.

I went home dissapointed, the worst retreat I’ve
ever done. But when I got home, presto!
I was five times saner, calmer and more serene
than when I went in.

Buddhist practice works, the excrutiating boredom
is part of getting free of attachments.
But, oh my, is it labor intensive!

Do any of you do religious retreats in this, or other,
religious traditions? e.g. Christian retreats?

What are those like?

2

You remind me of how very long it’s been since I have done intense meditative practice… I need it… thanks for the nudge.

3

Pendle Hill is the most prominent US Quaker retreat. I’ve never been. Maybe Doug has?

I’ve always wanted to do a retreat, but it’s always so expensive to take time off of work, plus paying for the retreat itself. Maybe in a few years. I’d like to go on a Catholic one.

4

http://www.pendlehill.org/

5

The place I went is free. There was no charge.
Monasteries often charge nothing. Buddhism
operates largely on dana, ‘generous giving.’
So you voluntarily give what you can,
or you don’t. With monks and nuns, there’s
never supposed to be a quid pro quo–
no charge for teaching.

Some meditation centers, like Insight Meditation Center
in Barre Mass, probably the flagship of the Vipassana
meditation community, charges about 50 dollars
a day for room and board. This is required
just to keep the place running. Hundreds of
people are coming through. However the meditation
teachers/retreat leaders are payed nothing. They also receive
(or don’t receive) dana. Some of the teachers are
monastics, but most are lay men/women.

IMS has a sliding scale, scholarships for broke people,
or people who are struggling with sickness,
and occasionally an entire retreat is free, room, board,
everything, or dana-based, which means it’s as free
as you wish. I’ve done at least one long retreat there
and given them nothing–at least nothing till a year
later when I gave some dana, a good deal less than
the retreat cost them.

IMS also has a work retreatant option. You stay for
free and work four hours a day. I was a work retreatant
there for two months once, working in the garden.

The nature of places like IMS is that they try to find a way
to let in for free people who can’t pay. Of course they
hope mightily that people who can pay will pay,
and then some…

I would suppose options like these exist in the
Christian community too.

6

If the sensation that the heat has become unbearable
arises in the mind
simply observe that the sensation has arisen in the mind
Do not attempt to block it it out
Do not attempt to remedy it
Do not attempt to celebrate it
Simply observe
Observe the arising of the sensation of unbearable heat
in the mind
Observe the sensation of suffering during its duration
and
observe
the passing away of the sensation
in the mind

Thus continues the practice of observation
in the sitting position …

7

My better half just got back from such a retreat at a small Catholic monastery where they are living the life of the desert fathers. He found it to be highly beneficial, renewing, peaceful, and to provide the opportunity for growth he was seeking.

They typically recommend retreats be three days long. Anyone there longer than that will typically be asked to help with the monastery’s labor. As he was, this is what his weekday schedule was like:

4:15 wake
4:30-6:30 prayers in the church
6:30-7:00 breakfast (informal, come and go)
7:00-12:00 The monks were typically working during this time. Several included naps in there as well. 3-day retreatants would spend this time in personal prayer or contemplation. Reading the Bible and other spiritual books would be encouraged (there are some methods of prayerful reading that would be especially conducive such as lectio divina). One’s spiritual father would assign certain books to be read for a retreat. Walking in the desert mountains or through the monastery garden are alternatives. Some days he would go miles into the mountains to pray. Those on longer stays would also help the monks with their daily tasks. He helped hang doors, run errands, work on their website, etc.
12:00-12:30 prayers in the church
12:30-1:00 lunch (informal, come and go, not uncommon to have a few interesting conversations or laughs)
1:00-6:00 Rest and personal labor again. Spiritual direction as needed.
6:00-7:15 Prayers in the church.
7:15-7:45 Dinner. Weekday dinners are silent while one monk reads aloud from a spiritually beneficial book. Saturday and Sunday dinners are taken aloud.
7:45-8:30 Recreation and relaxation.
8:30-9:00 Prayers in the church.
9:00 personal retreat to rooms for meditation, prayer, examination of one’s conscience, and sleep.
9:00p-4:30a strict silence is maintained.

The pay method you describe is exactly the same. Catholic monasticism has hospitality as one of its pre-eminent principles, so guests are not turned away. The general rule of thumb is that those who are able donate about half of what comparable accommodations would have cost in a secular setting, but there are plenty who cannot afford anything. The monks frequently had people stop in asking for food or a place to sleep for the night and they were always happy to share what they had. They “hired” a number of people, just as you describe, to garden or do other such jobs in exchange for more long-term housing and food. He said he found it to be “spiritually profitable to step back from everything and spend the time in church and prayer.”

This isn’t where he went, but I hope to one day go there myself. It sounds like your Buddhist retreat was very similar, except for the proscriptions against reading and working, which are strongly intertwined with the Trappist lifestyle that this linked monastery maintains. You might enjoy looking at the site to compare and contrast, especially their section on retreats.
http://www.newmelleray.org/

8

My church has an annual three day retreat. There is good food, entertainment and social activities at night, first class accommodations. The program includes classes, seminars, workshops, and other outdoor activities such as a nature walk with obligatory tree hug, or a drum circle.

The workshops might be on spiritual topics such as how to pray effectively, or how to meditate. Some might be more self-help in terms or specific issues such as prosperity, health, forgiveness. There might be projects where folks cut up old magazines to make poster board collages of what their ideal life looks like in pictures. There are rituals such as metaphorically letting go of the past, or grudges, or letting in and accepting the perceived good a person would like in their life.

Their is a charge, a steep one, to attend. A good percentage of the money goes to the conference center for room and meals.

9

I don’t think BillChin’s retreat is in the same category. It sounds more like a community-building event than a personal retreat into prayer and meditation. - not that I’m putting it down or anything, just that it seems to me to be a different sort of beast altogether than the original topic of this thread.

djm

10

I’ve taken part in a retreat for the last three years to San Luis Obispo, California. The weather there is always much more relaxing and refreshing than the hot, exhausting weather in Phoenix.

My living quarters there are a wooden cabin with no water, heat, or a/c. I do usually have lights. We do spend time building community with those around us but there is also a lot of emphasis on meditation and personal spiritual growth. Each morning starts with a family style breakfast, followed by a personal time of meditation and then a community worship. Likewise, each day ends with a community dinner, worship and a time of personal meditation before bedding down.

One thing that makes this retreat different from many others I’ve seen is that we take about three hours from each day to serve someone in the community. We spend more time on this than on any other activity while there. Sometimes it is doing yard work for an elderly woman who can’t, or perhaps painting a house for the same. We’ve done activities with underprivileged children and we’ve helped farmers who were falling behind in their work. All free, of course, and for the purpose of learning to humble yourself in servitude and do something out of love for a fellow human being (or group of people).

I come back home every year on the biggest, unmatchable high and I look forward to going each year. It’s great to leave the car, the house, the job, the “stuff” behind and just live on the bare essentials. I think that, while it is important to focus on yourself and your own spiritual growth, we were not meant to be alone and some of your most important growth comes from interacting with those around you and learning to humble yourself to those around you in selfless service.

11

I agree, but I must point out that in Christianity, there’s really no clear divide, doctrinally speaking, between personal and corporate devotion. We have personal prayer times and devotional times in our retreats, as in our week-to-week services, but also times of corporate worship and edification: you can’t have one without the other, because Christianity is a communal religion: we are all one body. There’s no real difference, to us, between the building up of one another and the building up of ourselves, becuase we’re all connected by the Holy Spirit.

“We, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.” Romans 12:5

Not trying to argue, just trying to explain why it’s so :slight_smile:

12

That’s alot of prayer.

13



Jim Stone wrote:
Do any of you do religious retreats in this, or other,
religious traditions? e.g. Christian retreats?

My comments certainly fit into Jim Stone’s question and add to the thread, your comments and personal preferences do not. Other religious traditions have different types of retreats. Religion is practiced in a thousand different ways. I think many readers can appreciate my perspective on this topic.

The retreat is organized by a church and attended by people that go to the church. The seminars and workshops are run by ministers. Almost all of the topics are spiritual or religious. That qualifies at least 90%. If you want to nitpick on 10%, that may be something you choose to work on.

14

For the monks, it is around 4 hrs and 15 min of prayer in the church each day, around 6-8 hours of labor, around 2 hours of personal prayer and study, around 1 hr 30 min eating, around 7-9 hours of sleep, and the rest in recreation or personal care (about an hour and 15 minutes). On the weekends, they have very little personal labor and spend a large part of the time in recreation and relaxation. The food is more festive, the meals are taken aloud, the local community eats and talks with them a lot more, etc. They form their day around the hours of the church as they are praying not only for themselves but for all the church. Then they make their living with their labor, and they share their hospitality through guiding retreats and accommodating guests. But they do not loose sight of the need for moderation in all things, so they enjoy the feasts just as much as the fasts.

15

Has nothing to do with my preferences, and I didn’t mean to nitpik or find fault, as I pointed out. Just a different interpretation.

djm

16

Sensation of heat…
Sensation of heat…
Aversion…Aversion…
Wishing I had never come to this
God forsaken monastery…
Sleepiness…
Wondering what they’ll give me for lunch…
Craving for French Fries.
Sleepiness…
ketchup…
Sensation of heat…
Sexual fantasy…
Wishing I had taken up Sufi Dancing instead…
Sensation of heat…
Sensation of heat…
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

17

Thanks for these descriptions of retreats. I spent a few days
in a Benedictine monastery in Vt doing research a long time
ago, so I have some feeling for Catholic monasteries.

I suppose the benefits of retreats are similar in most
every religious tradition (and I do wish to include the
activist sort of retreat Bill mentioned).

If there is a difference, it’s that many Buddhist retreats tend
to consist very largely of a certain technique, the
mindfulness or scanning practice that Talisiga
described above (and I parodied, except my account
was pretty accurate, at least about myself).
The idea is to extend this meditative awareness to
everything one does, including eating, walking,
using the toilet, etc. It is said that, in retreat centers
in Asia, the teacher may ask the student whether she
woke up on an in-breath or an out-breath.

This method is meant to produce enlightenment, or
a substantial taste of it, in about ten days, which
is the standard time for the standard retreat.
So it’s very intense. There is no talking at all
(except in interviews with the teacher), no eye
contact, no reading and no writing. Movements
are deliberately slowed down. There is a technique
for eating meditatively, so that a meal takes
four times as long as usual.

However most everybody has a job, cleaning, washing
dishes, vacuuming. The meditation center is largely
run by the yogis. It takes about an hour a day,
which often means 100 hours of work a day,
as there may be 100 yogis at a retreat.

The method involved was developed in Burma in
the last century, however it is closely based on
the Buddha’s meditation instructions, as recorded
in the Pali suttas.

It seems to me that the benefits of prayer are likely
to be profound, especially a lot of prayer, and perhaps
do something similar.

At home one is supposed to continue the meditative
practice an hour and a half a day.

The Bad News about the practice is that it is time consuming,
labor intensive, and boring.

The Good News is that it works. It makes you kind,
calm, and serene.

18

It has been very interesting for me to hear your thoughts and experiences with this. I live in a big city where Buddhism (and other Eastern religions) are merely a fad or trend; the folks with money for brains who get bored easily will become “buddhist” because it is something that is perceived as eccentric and fascinating… basically it gives them something to talk/brag about at dinner or the night club.

I find it appalling that people insult traditions and religions in this way for the selfish goal of seeming interesting to others.

Thanks for the realistic and honest (and humorous :slight_smile: ) insight.

19

Tell that to Simone Weil or Doris Grumbach.

20

Thank you.

There is very little real practice. I spent some time in Thailand
and there was little real practice there, either. Occasionally
one finds people in groups in a city who want to sit in silence
a good deal, but it’s rare.

A friend, my wife and I have started a small group here in
St. Louis. Two hours of sitting on Sat aft. People sometimes
come, stay for a few weeks, till the novelty wears off,
then realize practice is difficult and boring, and leave.

The people who stay are usually those who have done
a long retreat, like ten days, in silence. In the first one
of those I did I would have left if I could, I was so bored
and deprived of the things that made my life bearable.
But we were out in the country and they had my car
keys. I hated meditation, I hated the teacher… I decided,
finally, that I wouldn’t do anything foolish, I would stay
to the end and then I would go away and never come back,
and that would be my reward. On the tenth day they
let us begin talking again and, to my amazement,
I was happier and freer than I had ever been in my life.
There was no ego, the mindfulness practice had burned
it up, and in its place was a delicious ease and grace.
Freedom.

People who have been through a long retreat are willing
to sit through boredom and the mind complaining…
because they’ve done it before and know it is part of the
process of getting free. Otherwise you’re just bored
and, oh well,…

Buddhist practice doesn’t make you more interesting or
more charismatic. Enlightenment isn’t shining eyes and
novel ideas. It’s emptiness, there’s a lot less of you
than there was before.

This summer my wife and I were meditating with a Japanese Zen teacher
in Bloomington IN, a very good one. After these long sittings
we would all sit outside and eat water melons. People talked
about various things. This guy had
meditated a lot for 28 years. He didn’t have an ego.
He just drank things up, moment by moment. If I had turned
to him and said: ‘Let me tell you–everything you have done
and stood for for all these years, all this meditation, is
utter worthless rubbish!’ I’m convinced he would have looked
at me with interest and responded:

‘Is that so?’